necromancy, n. conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events (Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition)
So what is the purpose other than to influence the course of events pertaining to one who crossed over thru the veil of death and allow them a chance to swallow the LDS "gospill" They must be provided a PROXY Baptism in their name so they can CTR. If no communication happens between the parties how do the dead know the Proxy Baptism has occured?
Are there any stories you have ever heard of unusual meetings in the temple between temple workers & Dead Persons??????
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/christ/latter_appearances_eom.htm
http://www.jubilee.org.nz/p13.htm Once I felt the presence of a dead grandmother with me in the temple
http://www.cephasministry.com/r_ex_mormon.html I knew others to whom dead relatives visibly appeared and spoke, telling of their conversion to Mormonism in the spirit world.
http://www.watchman.org/lds/dirchair.htm I asked this missionary couple if they had ever known of any supernatural manifestations at the temple and they responded "Yes!" They told me of a young person who had been baptized for several different dead people at one time during a baptismal ceremony. After the youth had left the baptismal font and was returning to dress and leave, he was met by a "spirit" who identified himself and complained, "You forgot to be immersed for me!" The youth returned to tell those in charge of the oversight. The list of people for whom the "proxy" baptisms were to be done was rechecked. And "sure enough," one on the list had been omitted. Need I tell you which one?
Baptisms, Endowments, sealings & marriages Salt Lake City is the location where the most elaborate system for keeping genealogical records is found. Microfilms recording millions of names are kept in tunnels drilled into a mountain southeast of Salt Lake City. The Mormon Church also has a sophisticated web site to assist people in tracking down the dead. It is a spooky sight seeing all these folks searching for Dead people! Marriages performed for DEAD people but no communication? CMON!
Redeeming the dead?
http://www.prometheus6.org/node/9437 Under the Mormon practice, most Catholic popes have been proxy baptized, as have historical figures like Ghengis Khan, Joan of Arc, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Buddha, according to Helen Radkey, an independent genealogical researcher in Salt Lake City.
Apostle Parley Pratt "An important point is gained, a victory won, and a countless host of opposing powers vanquished, on one of the leading fundamental truths of Mormonism. That the living may hear from the dead. A people should seek unto their God for the living to hear from the dead!
"And again - the Lord has ordained that all the most holy things pertaining to the salvation of the dead, and all the most holy conversations and correspondence with God, angels, and spirits, shall be had only in the sanctuary of His holy Temple on the earth, when prepared for that purpose by His Saints.
"Ye Latter-day Saints! Ye thousands of the hosts of Israel! Ye are assembled here today, and have laid these Corner Stones, for the express purpose that the living might hear from the dead, and that we may prepare a holy sanctuary, where the people may seek unto their God, for the living to hear from the dead" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 43ff).
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BLAINE: Where did Kevin get such a fancy--and inappropriate--word? This word--necromancy--refers to communicating with the DEAD. Notice the emphasis on the word, "DEAD."
Joseph Smith's doctrine of baptism for the dead did not come from the single passage in 1 Corinthians 15:29. The doctrine of Baptism for the dead came by way of revelation from Jesus Christ, a living breathing fully alive personage. Joseph described him as being "glorious beyond description." This does not sound like "necromancy." to me.
Are you saying you believe Jesus Christ, and maybe God the father, are Necromantic?--those who are dead, communicating with the living?
NECROMANCY BAPTISM is essential for the faith?
C'MON Blaine
1 Co. Chapter 15: Verses 1,2,3,9,10,11,12,14,15,17,19 Contains FIRST Person pronouns, "we" "our" "you" "your" "ye", Paul is speaking to his Christian audience about things that
pertain to them.
1 Co 15:29 Else what shall THEY do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Here Paul abruptly switches gear and refers to a group outside of the Christians he had been refering to throughout the whole chapter. He now uses the THIRD person pronoun "they", since he is refering to PAGANs and Heathens. Is Paul mentioning or teaching here? Is he questioning or putting forth an essential teaching? If Paul was endorsing the teaching
he would have said "what shall WE do" instead he excludes himself from the practice in his use of "THEY"
Baptism for the dead was not a teaching of the primitive Church. The church father Tertullian, writing in about A.D. 180, makes this comment on 1 Corinthians 15:29 � �His [Paul�s] only aim in alluding to it was that he might all the more firmly insist upon the resurrection of the body, in proportion as they who were VAINLY baptized for the dead resorted to the
practice from their belief of such a resurrection.� The Five Books Against Marcion, V,10 in The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, no date), 3:449
Vs 12 �Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?�
Paul is refuting false teachings including this wrong teaching, from "some among you"
It is not wise to build a whole doctrine on a single verse and a question not a statement at that!
The Book of Mormon is described as containing �the fullness of the everlasting gospel� DC 27:5
Why does the Book of Mormon not contain such teaching, if Baptism is a central teaching of the LDS Church?
Where then is the EVIDENCE that the people of the BoM knew of or practised baptism?
If Baptism is essential to the Gospel & Salvation, then why does Paul say?
1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel
They are 2 separate things, on the one hand Baptism (NOT sent), the other Gospel (sent).
If baptism was an essential part of the Gospel, then he would have been "sent" to perform such. Instead he was sent to Preach the Gospel.
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
Blaine: You are arguing with a dead piece of wood, DaveH. Kevin is not a Christian, or he would believe in revelation, and baptism, which are essential Christian doctrines. He has his own religion. I have no idea where he gets it, but it appears quite consistently anti-Christian. On the other hand, Kevin claims to love God and worship Jesus Christ--also consistently. I wonder, Kevin, are you a fulfillment of the words of God to Joseph Smith when He said, "They worship me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me?"
DAVEH: Hey Kevin........Do you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not?
Kevin Deegan wrote:
C'MON JD, Who scripture twists? If you use any scripture at all, most of the time we get book citations or personal revelation from you. Besides doctrine should not be built on ONE lone verse anymore than a doctrine should be built on a verse that is a question. Such as we see with "what shall they do that are baptised for the dead?" that our Necromancing Mormon friends are so fond of.
NECROMANCY BAPTISM is essential for the faith?
C'MON Blaine
1 Co. Chapter 15: Verses 1,2,3,9,10,11,12,14,15,17,19 Contains FIRST Person pronouns, "we" "our" "you" "your" "ye", Paul is speaking to his Christian audience about things that
pertain to them.
1 Co 15:29 Else what shall THEY do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Here Paul abruptly switches gear and refers to a group outside of the Christians he had been refering to throughout the whole chapter. He now uses the THIRD person pronoun "they", since he is refering to PAGANs and Heathens. Is Paul mentioning or teaching here? Is he questioning or putting forth an essential teaching? If Paul was endorsing the teaching
he would have said "what shall WE do" instead he excludes himself from the practice in his use of "THEY"
Baptism for the dead was not a teaching of the primitive Church. The church father Tertullian, writing in about A.D. 180, makes this comment on 1 Corinthians 15:29 � �His [Paul�s] only aim in alluding to it was that he might all the more firmly insist upon the resurrection of the body, in proportion as they who were VAINLY baptized for the dead resorted to the
practice from their belief of such a resurrection.� The Five Books Against Marcion, V,10 in The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, no date), 3:449
Vs 12 �Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?�
Paul is refuting false teachings including this wrong teaching, from "some among you"
It is not wise to build a whole doctrine on a single verse and a question not a statement at that!
The Book of Mormon is described as containing �the fullness of the everlasting gospel� DC 27:5
Why does the Book of Mormon not contain such teaching, if Baptism is a central teaching of the LDS Church?
Where then is the EVIDENCE that the people of the BoM knew of or practised baptism?
If Baptism is essential to the Gospel & Salvation, then why does Paul say?
1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel
They are 2 separate things, on the one hand Baptism (NOT sent), the other Gospel (sent).
If baptism was an essential part of the Gospel, then he would have been "sent" to perform such. Instead he was sent to Preach the Gospel.
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
Blaine: You are arguing with a dead piece of wood, DaveH. Kevin is not a Christian, or he would believe in revelation, and baptism, which are essential Christian doctrines. He has his own religion. I have no idea where he gets it, but it appears quite consistently anti-Christian. On the other hand, Kevin claims to love God and worship Jesus Christ--also consistently. I wonder, Kevin, are you a fulfillment of the words of God to Joseph Smith when He said, "They worship me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me?"
DAVEH: Hey Kevin........Do you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not?
Kevin Deegan wrote:
C'MON JD, Who scripture twists? If you use any scripture at all, most of the time we get book citations or personal revelation from you. Besides doctrine should not be built on ONE lone verse anymore than a doctrine should be built on a verse that is a question. Such as we see with "what shall they do that are baptised for the dead?" that our Necromancing Mormon friends are so fond of.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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