DAVEH: Hey Kevin........Do you have a
problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages
that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed
a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that
logical conclusion, does it not?
Christians of all ages
accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith
BAPTISM as a REPRESENTATION
Baptism is a "LIKENESS" (Romans 6:5) a representation of something.
While not directly called a sign, there are examples of representations
throughout the scripture.
Rom 6 Therefore we are buried
with him by baptism into death: that LIKE as Christ was raised up from
the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS
of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection
LIKENESS: 1. The state, quality, or
fact of being like; resemblance. 2. An imitative appearance; a
semblance. 3. A pictorial, graphic, or sculptured representation of
something; an image.
Baptism pictures the burial and the resurrection of
Christ and our identification with His death, burial and resurrection.
Abraham recieved the sign of circumcision a
representation of being right with god through faith
RM 4 And he received the sign of
circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet
being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that
believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness
might be imputed unto them also:
Baptism is called a like FIGURE 1 Peter
3:21
The Lord's supper is a representation
also. Surely no one but the RCC believes you eat his literal body &
blood!
SOME SUPPOSED PROOF TEXTS
Acts 2:38 "Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins"
The little Greek word “eis” is translated in the New
Testament in the following ways and number of times: “against” 25,
“among” 16, “at” 20, “for” 91, “in” 131, “into” 571, “that” 30, “on”
57, “to” 282, “toward” 32, “unto” 208, and “upon” 25.
The catagories of meanings are Direction, Position, Relation, Cause,
and Purpose.
Restorationists interpret “eis” as “for” in Acts
2:38 to mean “in order to,” thus causing a person to be baptized “in
order to” be saved or to receive remission of sins.
The scriptures still teach that it is thru BELIEF that we are
Justified, made righteous and saved. Acts 10:43
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever
believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."
Lets take a look at some different usages in the
English of the word "for"
I called the doctor for some medicine (in order to)
I called the doctor for my child (in behalf of)
I called the doctor for my sickness (on account of)
I called the doctor for the bill (with respect to)
The context of the sentence and it's structure
determine the correct reading. Matt. 12:41.“The men of Nineveh shall
rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because
they repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater
than Jonas is here.” They repented in order to preaching, is non
sensical. They repented not “in order” to Jonah’s preaching, but
“because of” the preaching of Jonah. We could repeat this test with
other verses, the sentence determines the meaning.
Dr. Carl E. Sadler:
The Greek word “eis” about which all this contention is in Acts 2:38 is
used with the word baptize or word baptism in three other passages: In
Matt. 3:11, you have baptism eis repentance. Eis cannot mean in order
to there, but because of
repentance. Every Campbellite, Mormon, and others
who teach baptism in order for remission of sin admits that repentance
comes before baptism. In Romans 6:3, you find the _expression_ baptism
eis the death of Jesus. Eis cannot mean in order to there, but must
mean because of; both because Christ was already dead and raised again,
and because in baptism we declare
that we died with Him, and have been raised with
Him. In I Cor. 10:2, we have the _expression_ eis Moses. Eis cannot mean
in order to there, because they were not baptized in the cloud and in
the sea in order to get Moses to be their leader, but because he was
their leader. He had already led them out of Egypt. If baptism eis
repentance in Matt. 3:11 means be
baptized because they repented, if baptism, or be
baptized eis the death of Christ means be baptized because Christ died
and we died with Him, if “were baptized eis Moses” in I Cor. 10:2 means
they were baptized because Moses was their leader, then it follows
conclusively that “be baptized eis remission” in Acts 2:38 must mean be
baptized because your sins have
been remitted.
Dr. Sadler: “The argument that the
Campbellites make that the _expression_, for remission of, modifies both
verbs, repent and be baptized, won’t hold water. Repent is a plural
verb, active voice, second person, has ye for its subject, and was
addressed to the whole crowd. Be baptized is a
singular verb, passive voice, third person, and has for its subject,
not the whole crowd, but only such as had repented and believed. For
remission does not modify both verbs. It modifies baptized only, and
means that everyone who has repented and trusted in Christ is commanded
to be baptized because his sins
are remitted.”
Romans 6:3 “Know
ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ...”
“INTO” is the same Greek word “eis.” We are not saved by being
“baptized INTO Jesus Christ,” as false teachers would have you to
believe.I Corinthians 10:1,2 speaks of Israel’s passing through the Red
Sea, “And were all baptized UNTO[EIS] Moses in
the cloud and in the sea.” They were not SAVED at the red sea,
their salvation is found in Exodus 12:7,12,13, where the BLOOD on the
door posts was the only means of safety. Again it was not a literal
Baptism as they went thru totally DRY. When they went thru the walls of
water it portrays a picture (LIKENESS) of New Testament Baptism and
Israel's submission to Moses rather than Pharaoh as in the Christian's
submission to Jesus rather than this world.
In 1 Peter 3 we have another
figurative ("LIKE FIGURE") example this one being Noah's Ark. 1 Peter 3
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God
waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few,
that is, eight souls were saved by water. The LIKE FIGURE whereunto
even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting
away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a
good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ Now if
we leave the parenthetical part of the sentence out it clearly shows
what saves us:"The LIKE FIGURE whereunto even baptism doth also now
save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" The parenthetical portion
reinforces that baptism does
not put away the filth of the old carnal nature. It
is simply "the answer of a good conscious toward God."
John 3:5 Jesus said to Nicodemus: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born
of water and of the Spirit, he cannot
enter into the kingdom of God."
Water is used as a picture of the Word of God as in
Ephesians 5:25
The word is essential to salvation 1 Peter 1:23 "being born again, not
of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which
liveth and abideth for ever."
John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say onto you, He
that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath
everlasting life, and shall not come into
condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
In addition the verse shows that there must be TWO
births (Born again - second birth) one physical "born of flesh" (vs 6)
as when in the "Mothers Womb" the "water" brakes and one spiritual
birth "born of spirit" (vs 6). in verse 12 we have the contrast again
of "earthly things"(physical) and "heavenly things"(spiritual)
If it is still not clear see verse 15 which tells us who is saved "whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but
have eternal life."
Mark 16:16 "He
that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth
not shall be damned."
Question who is the one that is damned? "he that
BELIEVETH not" It all hinges on Believing!
It is good to be baptised but not essential. Baptism is a PUBLIC
profession of a spiritual new birth. It does not save. It declares
salvation.
EXAMPLES of those that were saved
independent of baptism
Luke 7:37-50 "Wherefore
I say unto thee, Her SINS, which are many, are FORGIVEN; for she loved
much: but to whom little is FORGIVEN, the
same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy SINS are FORGIVEN. And
they that sat at meat with him began to say
within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to
the woman, Thy FAITH hath SAVED thee; go in peace."
Jesus plainly stated that the women was
immediately forgiven and was now saved by faith. She knelt at the feet
of Jesus, trusted Him, and went away a saved woman. She was saved
without baptism.
Luke 18:35-43 healing/conversion of a blind
man. VS 42 "And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy
faith hath saved thee."
The publican, Luke 18:13, 14
Standing there in the Temple, he prayed saying: "God be merciful to me
a sinner," Jesus says "I tell you, this man went down to his house
justified!"
The thief on the cross in Luke
23:39-43 Was not baptised. One was saved that we might have hope One
was LOST that we might not presume.
BIBLE IS CLEAR SALVATION IS BY FAITH
"That whosoever believeth in him
should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:15-16.
"He that believeth on him is
not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because
he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" John
3:18.
"He that believeth on the Son
hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see
life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" John 3:36.
"Verily, verily, I say unto
you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath
everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed
from death unto life" John 5:24.
"And this is the will of him
that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him,
may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day"
John 6:40.
"Verily, verily, I say unto
you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" John 6:47.
"To him give all the prophets
witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive
remission of sins" Acts 10:43.
"And they said, Believe on the
Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" Acts 16:31.
"For by grace are ye saved
through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not
of works, lest any man should boast" Ephesians 2:8-9.
DAVEH:
Hey Kevin........Do you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in
support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that
the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for
salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not?
Kevin Deegan wrote:
C'MON
JD, Who scripture twists? If you use any scripture at all, most of the
time we get book citations or personal revelation from you. Besides
doctrine should not be built on ONE lone verse anymore than a doctrine
should be built on a verse that is a question. Such as we see with
"what shall they do that are baptised for the dead?" that our
Necromancing Mormon friends are so fond of.
