Re: [TruthTalk] baptism

[Dave Hansen]

Kevin Deegan wrote: Is God trying to trick us by leaving out such "essential" items out of the BoM???? DAVEH:  No more so than he left things out of the Bible.  Do you believe the Bible contains all things pertaining to the gospel, Kevin?  (I assume not, but correct me if I am putting words in your mouth.)  Neither does the BoM. Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH:  How can you be so sure, Kevin?  Because something is not written in either the Bible (or the BoM), you assume it did not happen....isn't that perilous logic?  As is commonly believed, 2/3 of the BofM have not yet been revealed.  And we know there is much that was not recorded or revealed in the Bible.  So...why would you make that assumption? Kevin Deegan wrote: "chrisrians? did not proxy baptise. Even Nephites did not.  Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH:  Hmmmm....why did you not answer my questions, Kevin?  Do you think those who practiced baptism for the dead in vs 29 believed themselves to be followers of Christ, Kevin?  And...why do you think they were doing proxy baptisms, Kevin? Even the Encyclopedia of Mormonism admits that only a few isolated sects have practiced it, including the heretical Marcionite sect in the second century, and the Ephrata Society, a occult group in Pennsylvania in the 1700s  The claim that baptism for the dead was part of Primitive Christianity that was lost, lacks any historical or logical basis.   Paul never taught Proxy Baptism anymore than he taught it was OK to eat meat offered to Idols 1 Corinthians 8:10 Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH:  Then why do you think those early Christians who practiced proxy baptism were doing it, Kevin?  Do you think they believed was simply a REPRESENTATION?  Or do you suppose they thought it might have more significance than simply being a "LIKENESS".     While baptism is certainly symbolic, do you think it may also represent a covenant?     BTW......Do you think a man of faith can be saved IF he does not repent? Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH:  Hey Kevin........Do you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation?  It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith BAPTISM as a REPRESENTATION Baptism is a "LIKENESS" (Romans 6:5) a representation of something. While not directly called a sign, there are examples of representations throughout the scripture. Rom 6 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that LIKE as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection   LIKENESS: 1. The state, quality, or fact of being like; resemblance. 2. An imitative appearance; a semblance. 3. A pictorial, graphic, or sculptured representation of something; an image.   Baptism pictures the burial and the resurrection of Christ and our identification with His death, burial and resurrection. Abraham recieved the sign of circumcision a representation of being right with god through faith RM 4 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:   Baptism is called a like FIGURE 1 Peter 3:21   The Lord's supper is a representation also. Surely no one but the RCC believes you eat his literal body & blood! -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.