My quest continues. If any of you real Christians on TT see any other
evidence that Satan is the mind and power behind JS and mormonism, please
let me know so I can research it and add it to my growing list of evidence
of Satan's grimy signature on the good, but deceived, people of the mormon
lie.
evidence that Satan is the mind and power behind JS and mormonism, please
let me know so I can research it and add it to my growing list of evidence
of Satan's grimy signature on the good, but deceived, people of the mormon
lie.
The god of Mormonism has a diferent Character than the God of the Bible.
The second Article of Faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression."
McConkie "It is not possible to believe in Christ and his atoning sacrifice, in the true and full sense required to gain salvation, without at the same time believing and accepting the true doctrine of the fall" New Witness for Articles of Faith p 82
1) GOD SAID
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Moses 2:28 And I, God, blessed them, and said unto them: Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth
2) GOD ALSO SAID
Gen 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Is this a suggestion? It it a good idea? Is it a preference for God?
IT WAS NECESSARY TO CHOOSE THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS
LDS doctrine teaches, the Lord gave Adam two conflicting commandments so that Adam was forced to use his agency to determine what was truly most important.
McConkie, NWAF, p. 91 states the 2 commandments stand in opposition to one another
NO CHILDREN WITHOUT TRANSGRESSION
Moses 5:11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
Is transgression Obedience?
2 Nephi 2:22-25And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end. And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who aknoweth all things. Adam fell that men might be; and men care, that they might have joy.
"Having thus shown why men must be endowed with agency, Lehi bears his own witness that such is, in fact, the case. "There is a God," he says, "and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon. And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter. Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other." (2 Nephi 2:11-16.) Thus we see why the Lord gave two conflicting commandments -- one to become mortal and have children, the other to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good
and evil out of which mortality and children and death would result. The issue is one of choosing between opposites. Adam must choose to become mortal so he could have children, on the one hand; on the other hand, he must choose to remain forever in the garden in a state of innocence. He chose to partake of the forbidden fruit so that the purposes of God might be accomplished by providing a probationary estate for his spirit children. Adam must needs fall so that he would know good from evil, virtue from vice, righteousness from wickedness. He could not have done this without breaking a law and becoming subject to sin. He chose the Lord's way; there was no other way whereby salvation might come unto the children of men." (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.91)
McConkie, NWAF, p. 91 states the 2 commandments stand in opposition to one another.
"For reasons that have not been revealed, this transition, or "fall," could not happen without a transgression-an exercise of moral agency amounting to a willful breaking of a law (see Moses 6:59). This would be a planned offense, a formality to serve an eternal purpose. The Prophet Lehi explained that "if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen" but would have remained in the same state in which he was created (2 nephi 2:22). Missionary Preparation, Religion 130 p 74 Lesson 10
God wanted Adam to sin? God planned a willful breaking of a law? God placed Adam in a situation that forced him to sin? God wanted Adam to PARTAKE of what God had FORBIDDEN? Why even forbid it? This does not make sense. God wants obedience and he hates sin! Sin is not, just a formality?
The "Most correct book" on Earth says
Moses 3:16-17 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, But of the tree of the aknowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
God would say choose for yourself? Choose sin1 or sin2?
"Thou shall NOT...thou mayest choose"? Is this God talking out of both sides of his mouth?
Are Adam & Eve Homo Sapiens?
"Children of Men" is a phrase used in reference to ALL Homo Sapiens.
1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.
Is it 2 "commandments" that conflict or is it NO commandments without preparing a way to accomplish them? What was the way that was prepared to accomplish BOTH of God's commands?
Doctrines of Salvation p114 "'TRANSGRESSION' NOT 'SIN' OF ADAM," Mormon apostle and prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. wrote, "I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin". On page 115, "This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin in the strict sense, for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!". "The 'fall' of Adam and Eve was not a sin but an essential act upon which mortality depends" Smith Answers to Gospel Questions v 5 p15.
SIN is a transgression of the Law!
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
If death is the wages of sin Romans 6:23, and Adam's and Eve's action was not actually sin, then why did it introduce death into the world in Romans 5:12?
The God of the BoM FORCES people into a double bind and invites them to choose sin1 or sin2 Moses 3:16-17.
Eve acted "with intent to act contrary to the divine command" Articles of Faith Talmage p63
The God of the Book of Mormon made Adam & Eve to sin. He INVITES & ENTICES to SIN. There was no other way than to disobey him
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Moroni 7:12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Is Adam a man? Then let NO MAN say he is tempted of God!
The true God does not tempt men!
Temptation to do evil surely does not come from God!
This is NOT in the character of the true God!
Who is this character??????????
The Angel of Light!
Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The Angel of Light!
Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dave,
Between Kevin's response, and the response I made to David some time ago
(which you quoted in your response), my position should be clear and I don't
think there is any more that I can add. If you were to accept my and Kevin's
position, that 'ALL' really means 'ALL', then it would mean you would have
to deny that the BoM and D&C are revealed works, and admit they they are
inconsequential and unimportant texts and, since mormonism stands or falls
on these inconsequential texts, you are not about to give up those saced
cows.
Do you realize that by believing that there needs to be further
revelation beyond the 66 books we have today, you are absolutely denying
God's ability to get His word to His people, and denying that the work of
Christ on the cross, which is explained fully in the Bible, and understood
for centuries by milions, probably billions, of Christians. Are you and all
of your mormon brothers and sisters really that arrogant?
DavidM, do not get worked up over the fact that I said 'no further
revelation'. I think you know what I mean by that.
Dave, I am starting on a new tack for my Mormon research. I have always
suspected that JS was under the influence of Satan, not being the sharpest
pencil in the pack, and that there are signs of Satan (the real one) all
through the mormon system...symbols, relationships, rites, all of it. My new
approach is to begin to identify and isolate all of those items that are
related directly to Satan to see if I can produce a profile of Satan's works
strictly from mormon sources.
For example, it makes sense that, since Satan has been severly punished
for his transgression of pride, and failed to defeat Jesus and, in fact, was
defeated BY Jesus at the cross, it makes sense that in the satanically
inspired mormon system he would make himself the BROTHER of Jesus. Yes,
fellow real Christians, the mormons consider Satan to be the brother of
Jesus. Not a fallen archangel...the actual brother of Jesus. Unbiblical.
Pure JS hype inspired by Satan himself. If you cannot make yourself HIGHER
than God, why not make yourself EQUAL to the Son of God? By the way, the
mormons also make themselves EQUAL to the Son of God. Brothers of Satan.
Eventually to become gods themselves. Satan tried the same lie on Adam and
Eve. It took him thousands of yeasrs to perfect that lie, and we see it's
fruit in the mormon church.
Additionally, consider that in the Mormon temple ceremony (at least from
it's inception until it was purportedly removed), a play showed Satan paying
a Christian minister to preach Satan's gospel. What a perfect ploy that
Satan himself used to poison the attitude of unsuspecting mormons into
believing that the REAL church is SATANIC. Reverse psychology at it's best.
Consider also that the symbols used on mormon temples are all associated
with the occult. AND, they never use the cross. The patented mormon reason
is that it is a symbol of torture. In part they are right because IT IS A
SYMBOL OF TORTURE TO SATAN BECAUSE IT WAS BY THE CROSS THAT HE WAS
DEFEATED!!!
Finally, Satan does not have to develop evil within people to win their
souls...in fact, he has developed a culture of some of the nicest warm-fuzzy
people on the planet...but all he has to do is to keep them from knowing the
real Christ, and he has done this by setting up a counterfeit christ and
false god to distract them. Lost souls a la carte. My original question that
began my quest to understand mormonism, "How can such nice and wonderful
people be so lost?" has been answered.
My quest continues. If any of you real Christians on TT see any other
evidence that Satan is the mind and power behind JS and mormonism, please
let me know so I can research it and add it to my growing list of evidence
of Satan's grimy signature on the good, but deceived, people of the mormon
lie.
Perry
PS. There is still time. Once you die, there will be no way to change your
mind. (Hebrews 9:27) And "once" means "once". A million mormons can be
baptised vicariously for you, but the only thing that will change is that
there will be a million more wet mormons. You will then know the truth. But
it will be too late to set you free.
>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
>Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 21:19:42 -0700
>
>
>DAVEH: To Kevin and Perry, who both responded to my post regarding *ALL
>God revealed* being included in the Bible. I did not realize that my
>questions would find you so disagreeable. DavidM previously posted what to
>me seemed a pretty convincing argument (from Scripture) that I will post
>below. I don't recall either of you getting excited about his suggestion
>that ALL is not included in the Bible. Is your disagreement with me on
>this simply because of my LDS background, or do you really believe ALL God
>has revealed is included in the Bible???
>
> Note: The passages you quoted before do not say ALL is included in the
>Bible, Kevin. IF you have any passages that DO say such, please post them.
> Otherwise, it would seem to be your opinion that ALL God has revealed is
>included in the Bible....And I believe your opinion is wrong.
>
>
>Perry wrote:
>
>>>I do beleive that the scriptures contain all
>>>knowledge and truth in that it provides all
>>>knowledge and truth regarding spiritual things,
>>
>
>No way. Even Paul speaks of a man going into the third heaven and
>receiving knowledge that was not lawful to utter. John bears similar
>testimony in the book of Revelation, being forbidden to write certain
>things that he heard. Apparently you have not yet had experiences like this
>yourself.
>
>
>Kevin wrote:
>
>As someone who we all love once said: "It depends on what the definition of
>IS, IS!"
>
>As far as I am concerned ALL does not mean some. There is another word for
>that it is called "some" You play fast and easy with the text. Just another
>example of the LOW REGARD for God's Word of many on TT.
>
>*Perfect example of forcing your context into the text!*
>
>Isogesis is to come to the text with our own presuppositions and thoughts
>coloring the way you read and interpret the text. Bringing those things
>"into" the text is isogesis, rather than taking "out" of the text, what it
>confers is exegesis
>
>/Charles Perry Locke wrote:/
>
>>>/From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>DAVEH: Wouldn't that suggest *_ALL_* means less than everything?
>>>/
>>
>>/
>>Dave, are you pulling a Clinton here? Doesn't 'ALL' always mean 'ALL'? /
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Dave Hansen
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.langlitz.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>If you wish to receive
>things I find interesting,
>I maintain six email lists...
>JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
>STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
>
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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