So then what is this ABUNDANCE refered to?
At the moment the Holy Ghost is conferred we recieve Him ABUNDANTLY.
Why then is there a secondary Bestowing? What scripture supports a secondary?
As to Gal I do not confuse the issue, We are told to walk in the spirit.
We also can resist the Holy Ghost
I do not see it as a secondary experience but a matter of yielding to the Holy Ghost
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin wrote:
> Titus 3 Not by works of righteousness which we have
> done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the
> washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy
> Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus
> Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace,
> we should be made heirs according to the hope of
> eternal life.
> Your Theology says some got shed on more ABUNDANTLY
> than others.
Of course. Isn't that an obvious observation repeated throughout Scripture?
For example, Acts 6 when the deacons were ordained, they were to be men full
of the Holy Ghost. The "renewing" of the Holy Ghost mentioned above has
nothing to do with Jesus baptizing someone with the Holy Ghost. This
renewing has to do with a work of the Spirit renewing a person, the fruit of
a born again spirit.
Kevin wrote:
> If one has not the Holy spirit it is as simple
> as "he is NONE of His"
I think you are tripping up on semantics here. You are reading this passage
and applying it to other contexts in other passages and thereby missing the
meaning of the other passages. God often does not speak like men do. For
example, he calls those things which be not as though they were (Rom. 4:17).
Let me use some other passages to help you see how if you used your mindset
with these other passages, you would miss the "simple" meaning.
Galatians 3:27
(27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on
Christ.
Now if this passage was approached in the same way that you approach Rom.
8:9, one might argue that a person who has been baptized into Christ would
automatiacally have put on Christ and be walking in the Spirit. Such a view
defies our observations of reality. Surely you have known people who have
been baptized into the Lord Jesus who then walk contrary to the way of the
Lord. Here's another passage:
1 John 5:18
(18) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is
begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Now if this passage was approached in the same way that you approach Rom.
8:9, one might argue that whoever experiences being born again could not
possibly sin again. Such a view again defies our observations of reality.
Surely you have known people who have come to saving faith in the Lord who
then sinned later, perhaps even often. We cannot say that is it just simple
that whoever is born of God does not sin because of what this verse says.
Here's another passage:
Acts 2:17-18
(17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out
of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream
dreams:
(18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days
of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
If we took the same approach to this passage as you have to Rom. 8:9, one
might argue that *ALL* flesh, everyone on earth, has received the Spirit,
and therefore, everything mentioned has been experienced by everyone (the
visions, dreams, the experience of prophecying, etc.). Yet, this defies our
observations of reality. Not all flesh has received his Spirit.
The Scriptures teach that we experience these realities when we believe. If
we walk in faith toward God, all of these passages find _expression_ in our
lives. The problem is that not everybody walks in this kind of faith.
There are doubters, just like the spies who went into the promised land and
did not believe that God would give it to them. There is nothing wrong with
the promises of God. The problem is with people who do not believe.
Now there also is the sin of presumption that must be considered here.
Presumption is the counterfeit of faith. Some people read passages like
those quoted and think that they automatically have been baptized in the
Spirit just because the Bible says they have, or they think they do not sin
just because the Bible says they don't. If it is by presumption rather than
faith, then they deceive themselves and walk in deception rather than the
reality of the passage. Remember that the Israelites did try to go into the
promised land when they realized that God had spoken the truth, but they
failed, because it was by presumption rather than faith. The reality of the
promise was not experienced until almost four decades later because of their
unbelief.
My concern about how you approach the baptism of the Holy Ghost is that it
leads to lukewarmness in regards to the gift of the Holy Ghost. Such a
reading leads to a tendency to presume that one has experienced all the
riches of the Holy Ghost even if they have not. There really needs to be an
acknowledgment that what the Bible says about the experiences of the
believer might not happen all at once. Just as a new believer might not
start preaching the Lord right away, or be praying as he ought, or walking
in holiness, in like manner he might not experience the gift of the Holy
Ghost. "Have ye received the gift of the Holy Ghost since ye believed," is
a valid question to a believer. If one's theology makes such a question
invalid, then his theology is wrong. The way he reads the Bible is wrong.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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