RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

[ShieldsFamily]

Izzy in blue: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:53 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism   Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading? No, as I can read and that’s what it says. Do you have an alternative reading of I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go? If so, please post it. Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ (“_expression_”?) differently than you?  You mean some may reconstruct what it actually says to suit their own biases? Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus. Please supply scriptural basis when disagreeing with what scripture says. God does both; not either/or.  The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions.  No doubt, Jonathan—you are living proof. Our view of God colours how we read Scripture. Our view on the trustworthiness of scripture colors it more.  If we view God as One who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. I have read what the Bible says and believed what God said about it. I did not have a preconceived point of view like you, so I am free to accept what it actually says.  If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text I never “wrestle” with God’s text—I believe it, even when it doesn’t say what I want it to. (note that the text also says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.That does not nullify the other scriptures saying that God hardened his heart—both are true.  You only accept one.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning. Please show us your subsurface meaning. We all become like the God we adore. I certainly hope so. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT.Again you are living proof of your own words.  I am not angry, hard or vengeful.  You perceive me to be, which tells us more about you than about me.   A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial. By and for whom?  Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts (Where were those?  Oh—you mean the Bible? perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order. I really don’t have time to figure out why everyone on TT believes what they do—only God knows, I’m sure. Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts?  God does soften hearts, but He also hardens them, as the Bible says.  The SAME message will soften one hart while it hardens another—ever notice that?  That is why God’s word is called a Two Edged Sword! Has God ever softened yours? Absolutely. Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue?  I guess you missed the part where I asked him further questions about why he believes God didn’t harden Pharaoh’s heart? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post? And who is angry, hard, and vengeful? Nice talk, Jonathan. Good thing that God is the One that I depend on for approval; not you. For that reason I don’t have to suffer hurt feelings over your scathing comments. Izzy   Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis    (Alumnus?)   ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism   Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism   David:  Why would such be bad?  Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart?  Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day?  Was that bad?   Raymond:  I respectfully disagree.  The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them.