Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

[Kevin Deegan]

LDS have been teaching LDS doctrine eversince I have been here.

The only thing is it has been cloaked in christian terminology for consumption of the unsuspecting. Seems some may have bought it for a while. Why would one need to hide things? Maybe they are sacred. LDS seem to equate sacred & secret.

Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dave, you say you are not here to teach LDS doctrine, but that is exactly
what you are doing. You may not be aware of the "Socratic Method" of
teaching, but you are using it to teach LDS doctrine. Now, as far as I am
concerned, it is your right to try to teach whatever you think is the truth
using whatever method you feel compelled to use (within the gudelines) on
TT. But at least be honest about it when you ar teaching LDS doctrine,
rather than saying you do not do it, then doing it anyway.

Perry

>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dispersions
>Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 07:17:32 -0700
>
>Judy Taylor wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 18 May 2005 00:09:26 -0700 Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> writes:
>>
>> DAVEH: Sure....God does look like a man, Kevin. If Jesus was
>> the Son of man (Jn 3:13), then do you not think his Father in
>> Heaven was a Holy Man? No; God is a Spirit (John 4:24) -
>>Jesus took our likeness upon
>> Himself for a purpose. Psalm 91:4 speaks of God's feathers and
>> wings, do you suppose he looks like a bird/ a chicken
>>
>DAVEH: Do you believe you have a spirit as well, Judy? Does having a
>spirit change the way one looks? If you do not believe God looks like a
>man, then what do you think he looks like??? Do you believe Jesus is in
>the express image of his Father in Heaven? (Heb 1:3)
>
>> And, if Jesus' physical body was in the form of a man, do you
>>not
>> think his pre-mortal spiritual body may have been in a similar
>> form? No; before he took a body upon Himself he was God
>>the Word who
>> appeared in His preincarnate state as
>> an angel, a cloud, fire, water from the rock. You can't figure out
>> God with a carnal mind Dave.
>>
>DAVEH: Do you believe it is important to understand the nature of God,
>Judy?
>
>> To answer your last question....yes, many things are created in
>>a
>> form before they become the actual entity. If we were created
>> in the image of God (Gen 1:26), and we will be like him when he
>> appears (1Jn 3:2), then does it not follow that God looks like a man?
>> No; the "image of God" speaks of nature and character.
>>
>DAVEH: Really?!?!?! So you would believe (don't let me put words in your
>mouth) that we could have been born with 4 legs and a tail and still been
>in the image of God?
>
>> You are trying to mix the spiritual with the temporal.
>> The temporal is passing away - only the spiritual is eternal.
>>Transformed bodies are part of it but this does
>> not mean that Good looks like a man. He did not leave us any
>> representation of Jesus, noone knows what
>> he looks like other than he wasn't all that good looking.
>>
>DAVEH: You are losing me on that one, Judy. Do you not believe Jesus
>currently has a resurrected physical body that resembles that of a man?
>
>> God knows our frame, we are such idolaters that
>> we would do the same with him as Israel did with the bronze serpent.
>>
>> As for him being seen.....is there any question about it?
>>The passages that suggest one cannot see God are obviously
>> referring to those who are carnal, since there are Biblical
>> characters (such as Moses & Stephen) who did see God.
>>Furthermore, Gen 32:30 pretty much illustrates that holy men can
>> see God, and live. Was it not Jesus who said.......
>> Moses didn't see God, he only saw his hind parts as he passed by
>> and even that caused his face to shine so
>> that he had to wear a veil before the ppl. Stephen had a vision
>> of Jesus standing at the RH of the Father but there is no
>> indication that he saw the face of God.
>>
>DAVEH: What difference does it make that Moses did not see God's face.
>That wasn't the question.....Did Moses see God, and you stipulated that he
>did......saw his hind parts . So what's to debate.....Moses saw God and
>lived. God has a body (you've stipulated Moses saw part of that body)
>which can be seen. Case closed, is it not?
>
>> He said that because the man he wrestled with represented God.
>>Do you really think that God Himself left his throne in heaven and
>> came down to earth to wrestle with
>> Jacob? It was an angel.
>>
>DAVEH: Do you believe the hindparts Moses saw were God's hindparts, or do
>you believe they were hindparts of an angel?
>
>> Probably another manifestation of Jesus in His preincarnate state.
>>
>> *Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.* (Mt 5:8)
>>
>> ...........Do you believe you can see God, Kevin? If not, perhaps
>> you are not pure enough in heart.
>> Takes more than presumptuous belief DaveH - It takes a pure
>>heart
>> (that is what God calls pure)
>>
>DAVEH: You are losing me on this, Judy. So you *do *believe those with
>a pure heart the shall see God? If so, then why would you take issue with
>my assertion that God has a body that can be seen?
>
>> Kevin Deegan wrote:
>>
>>> So what would he look like? a man?
>>> *Can he be seen?*
>>> How can you be in the form of a man before you become a man?
>>>
>>> */Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>>>
>>> DAVEH: No Kevin, I am not joking. I believe the Bible
>>> teaches that Jesus was the God of the OT before his birth (Jn
>>> 1:1-14)....I assume you agree. >From Jn 4:24, you do believe
>>> God of the OT was a spirit....is that correct, Kevin? Yet
>>> that spirit had the form of a body similar to ours, as is
>>> evidenced by Gen 1:26-27 which explains that we were created
>>> in his image. Furthermore, Paul suggests Jesus is the
>>> express image of his Father. (Heb 1:3)
>>>
>>> Moses even describes some of God's body parts in Ex
>>> 33:20-23, and whose similitude he beheld as mentioned in Num
>>> 12:18. Do you accept the literalness of these descriptions,
>>> Kevin? If so, does what I said above make sense now?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kevin Deegan wrote:
>>>
>>>> How could he be God in the "form of a man" before he became
>>>> a man?
>>>> Your joking with me, that make NO sense.
>>>>
>>>> */Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>>>>
>>>> DAVEH: God, in the form of a man consisting of a spirit
>>>> being. Are we in agreement on that, Kevin?
>>>>
>>>> Kevin Deegan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What was he before he "became a man"?
>>>>>
>>>>> *Hos 11:9 I am God, and _not man_; the Holy One in
>>>>> the midst of thee*
>>>>>
>>>>> DAVEH: I agree, Kevin. Jesus was not a man before
>>>>> he was born. But, I believe he was literally the
>>>>> Son of Man. When did that happen?.....after his
>>>>> birth. Not only was he the Son of Man, but he
>>>>> himself _became a man_, and was subsequently
>>>>> resurrected after his death when his spirit body
>>>>> was united with a physical body of flesh and bones
>>>>> to become an exalted man. With what part of this
>>>>> do you disagree, Kevin?
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin Deegan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If I incorrectly told you items about my wife
>>>>>> Hair color, likes dislikes, how we met, where we
>>>>>> married, where she was born (it was not Jerusalem : )
>>>>>> She would not be pleased. Her desire is that I
>>>>>> know her.
>>>>>> God wants you to know him, He is a
>>>>>>jealous God
>>>>>> He wants your love and affection.
>>>>>> If your description of Him is off, you are
>>>>>> worshipping a god of your own making
>>>>>> *Hos 11:9 I am God, and _not man_;
>>>>>>the Holy One in
>>>>>> the midst of thee*
>>>>>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Dave Hansen
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.langlitz.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>If you wish to receive
>things I find interesting,
>I maintain six email lists...
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>STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
>


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