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Kevin's question and, Dave's answer are
significant. In light of Jt and DM's view of Jesus it may be that we have more
'perspectivalism' on TT (even by it's founder) than one might have thought.
Kevin questions 'as if' dogma mattered. Does it? (to DM and JT)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 21, 2005 23:48
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
DAVEH: Easy, Kevin. Jesus walked the Holy
Land and was seen much differently by many people. Some recognized him
as their Saviour and King, while others viewed him as a major threat.
Even though they each had their differences of opinion as to where he came
from, what he was doing during his ministry, and what his relationship to
deity.....wouldn't you agree they were all focused on the same Jesus.
When Jesus hung on the cross, there was not a question of which Jesus hung on
the cross. The only question was who's view more accurately represented
the real Jesus.
Do you suppose that after the
tomb was sealed that all of Jesus' followers continued to believe he was the
Messiah, that he was God who could not be defeated by his enemies? Or....do
you think there may have been more than a few who might have been thinking
their view of Jesus might have been wrong? If you think there was no
doubt.....go back and read the accounts of those who first saw Jesus after he
arose.
The point being.....no matter what the
perspective of those who saw Jesus hanging on that cross.....he was still the
same person.....Jesus.
And FTR, I will repeat
this again so there is no mistake on your part or any other TTer.
The Jesus I believe in is the same Jesus who hung on the cross by his enemies,
and 3 days later arose in a resurrected state of exaltation. That
is my Jesus, and I believe he is your Jesus. That we may have
different perspective of some of the details about his attributes does not
mean that we are not talking about the same Jesus that hung on the cross as
explained in the Bible.
Kevin Deegan wrote:
How can your Jesus have different attributes than my Jesus and
still be the same person?
Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they
be agreed? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH:
Logically, the onus is not upon me to define the Jesus I believe in, but
rather it is on the person who suggests I don't believe in Jesus.
FTR....I have not said that the Jesus Kevin, you Perry or any other TTer
believes in is a false Jesus.
Lance Muir wrote:
DaveH says "Kevin, I believe in Jesus." IFF
we are going to engage in a conversation that entails reality, then we
have to continue to build upon that which has been said
previously.According to you THE JESUS TO BE BELIEVED IN IS MOST
FULLY AND ACCURATELY DESCRIBED WITHIN MORMON TEACHING. Is this
so? The Jesus believed in by Kevin, Perry, Lance et al is a false
Jesus. Is this not also so? (unwieldy but, you get my point)What, IYO,
are the eternal consequenses for non-Mormons?
Mr. Moderator:Please grant DaveH the
opportunity of fully answering and, explaining.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
June 19, 2005 23:02
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
DAVEH: FTR Kevin, I believe in Jesus.
Therefore can we conclude that you've made the judgment rather than
God?
Kevin Deegan wrote:
He will!
He
Has!
JN 3:18 He that believeth on him is
not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned
already
DAVEH:
I fully understand that, Perry. But I'd feel more comfortable
letting God make that judgment than you.
Charles Perry
Locke wrote:
> David,
>
> Romans 10:9,10 :
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
> Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
> the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto
> righteousness; and with the mouth
confession is made unto salvation.
>
> But, as I have
stated before, the right jesus and right god must be
> at
the center of one's faith. I am not just harassing you, Dave, I
> honestly do believe that the mormons worship false
gods.
>
> Perry
>
>> From: Dave Hansen
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>>
To: [email protected]
>>
Subject: [TruthTalk] Belief
>> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005
00:16:42 -0700
>>
>> DAVEH: Yeah........Pretty
quiet on TT tonight..
>>
>> Do you believe that
those who believe in Jesus are saved, as I've
>> heard
many Christians proclaim? If belief is inadequate, what else
>> is needed, Perry?
>>
>> Charles
Perry Locke wrote:
>>
>>> Dave, this is
great. Midnight, just me and you on TT, mano y mano,
>>> so to speak :-)
>>>
>>> I
guess I am biased in that way, because both you and Blaine admit
>>> to following the christ and jesus of mormonism,
so it is my opinion
>>> that you are lost since I
believe that they are false gods. If I
>>> thought
that you guys were saved in spite of the teachings of the
>>> mormon church I would not be spending so much
time exposing the
>>> false nature of the mormon
church to you.
>>>
>>> But, the bottom
line is that God makes that ultimate decision, not
I.
>>>
>>>
Perry
>>>
>>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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