The difference I see between obedience
from our perspective and that of yours, is thus
not one of action nearly so much
as it is one of motive. And I happen
to believe that in our way of thinking, one comes much
closer to a proper motivation for obedience than does one from
yours. It is not fear of hell that moves us, or simply because
"we're supposed to do it" that we obey -- and it is certainly not because
we must do what Christ cannot. In fact, woe for
even suggesting so!
jt: Why the woe? ... I
would say Bill that you mischaracterize my position every bit as much
as you claim that I mischaracterize yours although you will need to
show me how I do this.
Did you not write these
words: "Jesus did His part ... but we have our part in this also,
He can't take care of our part"? How is my statement of
dissagreement with you that "it is certainly not because we must do
what Christ cannot," a mischaracterzation of your position?
Perhaps, Judy, you do not stop to consider how your words might
sound.
Obedience is the natural fruit of our
relationship with our Father. When we come to really know him, we come to
see that he loves us more than we love ourselves, and that he wants only
what's best for us, and that he longs for our fulfillment with a greater
passion than our own." Hence in participation with our Lord, we begin to
see that obedience is not only right and loving, it is the only thing that
makes good sense. Bill
jt: Sorry Bill but obedience is
not natural to the natural man <SNIP>
Are you completely unaware of
the context of this discussion, Judy? This statement is written in that
context, in regards to Christians and the motive
for obedience on the part of Christians. In other
words, there's no "natural man" in this discussion. The "natural man"
doesn't even pursue a relationship with "the Father." I wrote,
"'Obedience is the natural fruit of our relationship with
our Father.' ... Hence in participation with our
Lord, we begin to see that obedience is not only right and
loving, it is the only thing that makes good sense." So why this talk
about the "natural man"?
Do you believe that you must be
born again Bill? I've never seen you discuss this.
jt
Yes. And perhaps some day we
can discuss what we think this means.
Bill
