The difference I see between
obedience from our perspective and that of
yours, is thus not one of action
nearly so much as it is one of
motive. And I happen to believe that in our
way of thinking, one comes much closer to a proper motivation for
obedience than does one from yours. It is not fear of hell
that moves us, or simply because "we're supposed to do it" that we
obey -- and it is certainly not because we must do what Christ
cannot. In fact, woe for even suggesting
so!
jt: Why the woe? ...
I would say Bill that you mischaracterize my position every bit
as much as you claim that I mischaracterize yours although you
will need to show me how I do this.
Did you not write
these words: "Jesus did His part ... but we have our part in this
also, He can't take care of our part"? How is my
statement of dissagreement with you that "it is certainly not
because we must do what Christ cannot," a mischaracterzation
of your position? Perhaps, Judy, you do not stop to consider how
your words might sound.
Obedience is the natural fruit of our
relationship with our Father. When we come to really know him, we come
to see that he loves us more than we love ourselves, and that he wants
only what's best for us, and that he longs for our fulfillment with a
greater passion than our own." Hence in participation with our Lord,
we begin to see that obedience is not only right and loving, it is the
only thing that makes good sense. Bill
jt: Sorry Bill but
obedience is not natural to the natural man <SNIP>
Are you completely unaware
of the context of this discussion, Judy? This statement is written in
that context, in regards to Christians and the motive
for obedience on the part of Christians. In other words, there's no "natural man" in this
discussion. The "natural man" doesn't even pursue a
relationship with "the Father." I wrote, "'Obedience is the natural
fruit of our relationship with our Father.'
... Hence in participation with our Lord, we
begin to see that obedience is not only right and loving, it is the
only thing that makes good sense." So why this talk about the "natural
man"?
Do you believe that you
must be born again Bill? I've never seen you discuss this.
jt
Yes. And perhaps some day
we can discuss what we think this means.
Bill
