The difference I see between
obedience from our perspective and that of
yours, is thus not one of action
nearly so much as it is one of
motive. And I happen to believe that in
our way of thinking, one comes much closer to a proper motivation
for obedience than does one from yours. It is not fear
of hell that moves us, or simply because "we're supposed to do it"
that we obey -- and it is certainly not because we must do
what Christ cannot. In fact, woe for even
suggesting so!
jt: Why the woe?
... I would say Bill that you mischaracterize my position every
bit as much as you claim that I mischaracterize yours although
you will need to show me how I do this.
Did you not write
these words: "Jesus did His part ... but we have our part in this
also, He can't take care of our part"? How is my
statement of dissagreement with you that "it is certainly not
because we must do what Christ cannot," a
mischaracterzation of your position? Perhaps, Judy, you do not stop
to consider how your words might sound.
Obedience is the natural fruit of our
relationship with our Father. When we come to really know him, we
come to see that he loves us more than we love ourselves, and that
he wants only what's best for us, and that he longs for our
fulfillment with a greater passion than our own." Hence in
participation with our Lord, we begin to see that obedience is not
only right and loving, it is the only thing that makes good
sense. Bill
jt: Sorry Bill but
obedience is not natural to the natural man
<SNIP>
Are you completely
unaware of the context of this discussion, Judy? This statement is
written in that context, in regards to Christians and
the motive for obedience on the part
of Christians. In other words, there's
no "natural man" in this discussion. The "natural man"
doesn't even pursue a relationship with "the Father." I wrote,
"'Obedience is the natural fruit of our
relationship with our Father.' ... Hence
in participation with our Lord, we begin to see
that obedience is not only right and loving, it is the only thing
that makes good sense." So why this talk about the "natural man"?
Do you believe that you
must be born again Bill? I've never seen you discuss
this. jt
Yes. And perhaps some day
we can discuss what we think this means.
Bill
