Bill wrote: > I agree with you all that Jude is writing to believers > -- but it is not about "once saved" believers that he > speaks. Rather he is speaking in reference to certain > men who have "crept in" and these are not believers > at all, nor have they ever been; in fact, he says of them > that they deny Jesus Christ.
As many on the list know, I do not use the words "Christian" and "believer" in the same way. From my perspective, a Christian is someone who professes to follow Christ. A Christian may or may not actually do what he professes to do, in the same way that the Pharisees professed to follow Moses but did not. A believer, on the other hand, is someone who expresses true faith in Christ. I think part of the Holy Ghost's message to us through Jude is that in Christianity, we have a diverse group of people. Just as Judaism under Moses had its Korah followers and just plain doubters, so does Christianity. Consider 1 Corinthians 10 in light of his comments: 1 Corinthians 10:1-14 (1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; (2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; (3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat; (4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. (6) Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. (7) Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. (8) Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. (9) Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. (10) Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. (11) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. (12) Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. (13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (14) Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. It is really the same message as Jude. Gary was pointing out, why talk this way if Christians don't do some serious sinning. I agree with him. The point being, some Christians do happen to do some serious sinning, but will such Christians escape the wrath of God? I think not. If he did not spare these Jews, he will not spare us if we fall into unbelief. Hebrews 10:28-29 (28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: (29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
