Re: [TruthTalk] questions for Kevin . . (was playing chess . . . etc).

[Terry Clifton]

A Christian apostle told us Judas was a thief long before there were any Mormons.  Gospel according to John.  Don't pay too much attention to Mormons or sociologists.  Neither of them have a good grasp of reality. Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainer:  Aagg!!  That makes me cringe, that God sets someone up to fill a role that had to be filled.   I think Judas had a clear choice, and chose to be what he was, the same as all the other apostles.  He just made a wrong choice.  His knowledge of the truth could have armed him against such an act.  There is a sociological theory which basically says,  "politics loves a vacuum."  This means if there is a social role to fill, someone sooner or later will fill it.  Judas was the loser who chose to fill that role as the detractor and betrayer.  But it could have been anyone else.  Satan did the same in the pre-existence.  He chose to fill the role of the jealous rival.  Perhaps jealousy had something to do with Judas, also. A Mormon apostle claims Judas was an unrepentant thief, which led him into the final act.  Just rambling, but lots of possibilities here.     In a message dated 7/20/2005 5:00:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The potter has every right to use the clay as He chooses, Blaine.  Fortunately for us, the potter also is not only a loving potter, but an omniscient one.  In this case, the potter used a vessel for dishonor that He knew far ahead of time was disposed to act in a dishonorable manner.  Put another way, God did not have to harm a good guy.  He had plenty of bad guys to choose from. Terry ================================================================== [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainer:  Guess Kevin's busy today--either that or he's not  condescending to speak to this lowly Mormon-- LOL.   But,  interesting scripture, Izzy. You chose the very passage I was wondering about, but couldn't find.  It seems to be saying Judas was pre-determined to be "the son of perdition."     Do you believe in pre-determinism?   This seems to be similar to the idea that only pre-selected individuals will go to heaven, and all others need not even apply, does it not?     In a message dated 7/20/2005 9:28:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John 17:12 "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.