Actually, when John said, "...I would make you jealous", I thought he was
using a metaphor to say "I have many blessings", or "you would be surprised
at how much I have been blessed". I didn't think he was really assuming any
other believer would be jealous. We use similar phrases all the time. "I
have more blessings than Carter has pills". (How many pills does Carter
have?) "I have more blessings than you can shake a stick at!". (Exactly how
many is too many to shake a stick at?)
Was I being naive in reading his comment that way? Do you think he seriously
meant that you would really be jealous? Maybe he did...I don't know.
Perry
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:33:56 -0400
This is so true Izzy - I hope and pray for many more blessings on both JD
and Bill . Judyt
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:05:42 -0500 "ShieldsFamily"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Judy, I find it interesting the JD would assume that another Believer
would be “jealous” of his blessings. That is a mighty sour assumption
for one walking in love. Love rejoices at the blessings of another, and
such is what we Believers walk in. Love also assumes the best of others
unless there is a compelling reason not to. I wish only many more
blessings to you JD, Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:42:18 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:46:06 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No blessing????? Judy, such a comment demonstrates just how confused
you really are. On many occasions,
I have stated that if I were to speak of the many blessings from God, I
would make you jealous. I will leave it at that.
jt: You wouldn't be making me jealous JD; don't know where you would get
that idea. To each his own.
Why would you think we are trying to manipulate God? jt
My life is absolutely full of blessings from God, Judy.
jt: Not surprising since He blesses both the just and the unjust.
I explained my understanding of manipulation in the posted comments you
admitted. Why you did not read
them is beyond me.
jt: Oh! You are calling obedience "manipulation" - what a travesty. We
truly are in the last days when men will not
endure sound doctrine. We didn't get the necessity for obedience out of a
hat you know. As for Gary -: Honest?
Most of the time noone knows what he is saying
The travesty, here, is that you beliefve and teach others a gospel that
simply does not work.
jt: What do you mean "does not work?" Does God have to "work for us"
before we choose His way?
Rather we serve Him...
No one argues against obedience. But to say that obedience (doing this
right and doing that right) is a cornstone in our salvation is plain old
pure false teaching IMO.
jt: You do argue against it constantly JD and you have even renamed it
"works salvation"
Such people deny the Spirit of God for others and lead people into a walk
that is no different from the
core beliefs (on this subject) from the Mormons, the RCC and the JW's..
jt: Plain old unadulterated nonsense JD. What I believe and practice has
nothing at all to do with any
of the above which are all exclusive man made hierarchies.
I assume G's honesty just as surely as I assume yours or DM.
jt: What if he is a well-meaning deceived person JD? Would you still
call that honest? Where is discernment?
What if I have been wrong about YOU !!! To date, I have refused to
consider "what if" when it comes to those on this forum.........even with
our Mormon friends. Please tell me why I should consider you to be
honest and Gary to be something else.
jt: I don't think you should be judging either of us personally JD and if
you are unable to recognize whether or not a person speaks truth by God's
Word then it is worse than a pointless endeavor.
Works salvationism IS a doctrine of manipulation and is a false teaching.
Now, that is what I believe.
jt: Nobody I know of on TT has been discussing "works salvationism" JD so
this is a construct of your own mind.
Do you know why you resist "works salvationists" ? Because you know
that "works salvationism"
is false doctrine.
jt: Works salvationism is a non Biblical term that I never have any
reason to have to deal with. I don't
go to those places - but then you would probably define the PCA Church I
do attend that way since
they teach that true faith will have corresponding actions or fruit that
are evident in the lives of thos
who profess to have it.
Probably a roll-over from your CofC legalism trauma. Fact is God is and
always has been a God of Covenant
and his ppl are either covenant keepers or covenant breakers. Lance has
some pie in the sky idea that for us
the covenant is unilateral meaning that God does the lot and we just go
on our merry way. His doctrine may
back this up but the scriptures certainly do not.
I am going to start tracking the times when you have answered a question
with pure speculation or avoided my questioning (or others) altogether.
When the time is right -- you are going to be startled. Your tactic,
at that time, will included accussing me of cut and paste and other such
dishonest endeavors -- but that tactic will be considered as I track
you and your buds on this action. It will take perhaps six months. I
will be fully silent on this -- you all will forget I am doing this
and then BAM> :-)
jt: What makes you think that any of us will accept such tactics as God
inspired or true? I'm human and
miss it at times but then so do you JD.
I assume G feels the same. You will disagree, of course. We cannot help
but to speak and write out of our theological construct. Your construct
includes (apparently) the idea that you can judge a fellow Christian to
be a disciple of Satan
and that you should tell them this -- even frequently. Ditto for
kevin and shields.
jt:: I can discern what comes from your own mouth/keyboard John and
recognize the source. Accusation is never ablessing.
i DON'T NEED TO DISCERN ANYTHING IN THIS PRESENT DISTRESS. ALL I NEED
TO DO IS TO BE ABLE TO READ. If you do not see the source in my life as
being the Spirit of God, you and all who agree with you are have nothing
to do with God in that consideration. Nothing. And you transgress I
don't know how many scriptures ------------- thank God we don;t have
to be right to be saved.
jt: Accusation is destructive. It is never from God - it's source is
always the accuser of the brethren. I am
not saying that you are serving Satan. We all must deal with accusing
spirits but we don't have to allow
them to use our mouths and this is what I am trying to get you to see.
The Holy Spirit convicts and that
is entirely different allowing us to deal with personal transgression in
the right way.
DM actually does not do this (in my memory) although he might defend
others for so writing. The point, here, is that
G will speak and write from his passion. He will see associations
between your words and what you are that may
not be pleasant to you. So what.
jt: So why are you defending Gary and his one word comments? It's not
good to partake of another man's sin.
This last phrase is exactly why I do defend Gary and resist you on this
-- sin, Judy. You are in serious
error on this matter.
jt: I don't think so JD. If Gary thinks Izzy and I are full of myth or
that we are practicing manipulation
so far as God is concerned then he is obligated to spell it out and show
us by God's Word where we
are missing the mark. Scorn and mocking stand in the way of the sinner.
All on the 'right" do this very thing many times a week. What he nor
Bill, nor Lance (when he was with us) nor Slade nor Debbie nor Caroline
Wong, or myself have ever placed any of you in the very camp of Satan --
being one with him, motivated by him and hatred for Believers. I
prefer G's "harshness" to yours, in this case and accept his response as
an honest response.
jt: Why is it offensive to you to realize your mouth can and is being
used by the wrong spirit?
Because such is a lie ................................ it is not
moment of ignorance on the part of those who claim such, it is a lie. I
KNOW WHOM I SERVE, JUDY. No one on this forum would argue that I serve
Satan except a liar. Hopefully that is not your position. If anyone
from the left or the right thinks for a second that I am going to back
off on this - well you are wrong. But, I am ready to move on to
matters of biblical substance........just ftr.
jt: I never accused you of serving Satan JD; this is another accusation
and comes from the same source.
I am saying that you can unknowingly be used by him the same as James,
John, and Peter were and I
don't believe for one moment that those three were serving Satan any more
than I believe that you
are intentionally serving Satan.
Jesus said the same
to the sons of thunder; he told them they didn't know what spirit they
were of. He flat out confronted Peter and said
"Get behind me Satan, you savour the things of man rather than the things
of God" (my paraphrase). Obedience
is not works it is normal christian living.
"not justified by works of law" can only be understood as "not saved by
obedience to law."
jt: We are saved by obedience to Christ who said "If you love me you will
do what I say"
Scripture please --------------- preferably a scripture that does not
need to be reworded.
"If ye love me keep my commandments" (John 14:15)
judyt
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:27:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14
JD David is right, I have been trying to get you to see what you are
doing and it is for your/Gary's sake as much
as ours because not only does continual accusation wear us out - You/Gary
will never reap blessing so long as
you are allowing the adversary to use you this way.
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:54:46 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One additional comment. Your post below justifies Judy's very bad
behavior, ignoring the possibility that
Gary was hoping that Judy (and then Linda) would see their actions as, in
reality, an attempt to manipulate God.
jt: We are not entirely stupid JD; why would you think we are trying to
manipulate God?
"If I do this and that, then I can expect God to do that and this."
Such can be considered manipulation --
jt: Not when one has learned to know His ways and walk in them JD. This
is where the blessings of obedience
happen. God always longed for Israel to want to know His ways but they
preferred His acts - only Moses knew
them and had the ppl wearing him out night and day wanting him to make
spiritual judgments between them.
especially when such thinking is not founded in scripture (i.e.works
salvation) Now, whether Gary's theological
opinion is correct, and I think it is, his willingness to be honest in
his appraisal without accusing either Judy or
Linda of being disciples of Satan can be seen as a very commendable
action.
jt: Honest? Most of the time noone knows what he is saying but lately he
has been openly accusing so I don't
know how you would reach such a consensus JD. Once more - obedience is
not works it is normal christian
living. judyt
-----Original Message-----
From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:03:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14
JD wrote:
> Judy writes this YOU ARE ONE WITH THE ACCUSER
> That sort of tripe is ad hom at its core.
Yes, John, it is, but you seem to overlook that she was responding to a
personal insult. If a man slugs another man, and the man he slugs then
slugs back, is it really fair to focus all our criticism on the man who
slugged back in response to the first? I'm not trying to justify her,
but help you see that others are provoking her and it would be best if we
got to the root of the problem. Ideally, it would be best if we all
turned the other cheek, but if that does not happen, we try and stop the
root of the problem and then the rest is taken care of as a result.
Furthermore, there is actually a big difference in what Judy is saying
and that of the initial accuser. It seems to me that Judy is hoping to
help the one who is doing the initial accusing to see that he is
cooperating with spiritual forces that perhaps he does not mean to be.
In other words, she is trying to help him see why he has become an
accuser himself and hoping that realization will cause him to correct his
misbehavior.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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