Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened,
who were dead in trespasses and sins;
BT: Yes, and Paul clarifies in Eph 2.5 and Col 2.13 that this happened "together with
Christ." When was Christ made alive from the dead? At his resurrection.
When were we made alive together with him? At his
resurrection.
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Ephesians 2:5 - Even when we were dead in
sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are
saved;)
BT: Again, it was while they were dead that
something happened which made them alive (by grace they were saved). In
other words, it had nothing to do with anything they did on their
part. When did this quickening take place? "together with
Christ."
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Colossians 2:13 - And you, being dead in your
sins and the uncircumcision
of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven
you all trespasses;
BT: It was while they were yet dead that this
took place, their forgiveness included.
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1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also hath once
suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to
God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the
Spirit:
BT: This is speaking of what Christ endured on
our behalf as well as what he accomplished via his death and
resurrection, he "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the
Spirit."
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So, we might think of "spiritual death" as
being "dead in trespasses and sins". It is when we come to believe
and trust in Jesus (and all that it implies) that we are "quickened",
or gain spiritual life.
BT: I know that this is what you believe,
Perry, along with many other Christians today, but I ask you to consider
how it is possible that your "belief" and "trust" have anything to do with
this. Paul's tells us that this happened while his readers "were yet
dead"; that is to say that they were in a state of death when Christ
accomplished this quickening on their behalf.
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How about these verses:
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that heareth my word,
and believeth on him that sent me,
hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is
passed from death unto life.
BT: I very much love this verse; it is one of
my favorites. It speaks to the assurance of salvation for those who
believe. Yet it does not take away from the possibility of salvation for
some who do not believe -- and I am thinking primarily of people who have
not rejected Jesus Christ. They are not necessarily condemned, although
they lack the assurance of belief.
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1 John 3:14 John We know that we have passed
from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
BT: John's writings are rich with contrasts:
light vs darkness; love vs hate; truth vs lies; life vs death; children of God vs children of the devil, and on and on. To
conclude that this is all about spiritual life vs spiritual death is to miss much of the
thrust of his writing. He is talking about "abiding" in God, which is to
say that he is addressing our entire being, our whole person in relation
to God, and not just the spiritual
aspect.
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If we can pass from death unto life if we are
not dead first? Not physically dead, but spiritually
dead.
BT: I am addressing this in a response to Izzy. You can watch for that post. In the
meantime may I suggest that you do a study on the NT use of the word "regeneration"? Check it out
for yourself and see if you don't agree with me that the NT does not use the term, as most modern
Christians do, for that which goes on in the "heart" of new converts. That
should sort of set the tone for my response. I think you shall find that
this term is used not of existential experiences in the here and now, but
of eschatological events -- when Christ
returns and the quick and the dead are judged and all things shall be made
anew. And if you press on, I believe you will also find
that it is wholly bound up with the merciful activity
of God alone in the Holy Spirit
through Jesus Christ our Savior; that it really has nothing to do with
anything we have done ourselves.
'Til tomorrow evening sometime,
Bill
