Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened,
who were dead in trespasses and sins;
BT: Yes, and Paul clarifies in Eph 2.5 and Col 2.13 that this happened
"together with Christ." When was Christ made alive from the dead? At his
resurrection. When were we made alive together with him? At his
resurrection.
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Ephesians 2:5 - Even when we were dead
in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are
saved;)
BT: Again, it was while they were dead that
something happened which made them alive (by grace they were saved). In
other words, it had nothing to do with anything they did on their
part. When did this quickening take place? "together with
Christ."
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Colossians 2:13 - And you, being dead in your
sins and the uncircumcision
of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven
you all trespasses;
BT: It was while they were yet dead that this
took place, their forgiveness included.
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1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also hath
once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might
bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by
the Spirit:
BT: This is speaking of what Christ endured
on our behalf as well as what he accomplished via his death and
resurrection, he "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the
Spirit."
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So, we might think of "spiritual death" as
being "dead in trespasses and sins". It is when we come to believe
and trust in Jesus (and all that it implies) that we are
"quickened", or gain spiritual life.
BT: I know that this is what you believe,
Perry, along with many other Christians today, but I ask you to consider
how it is possible that your "belief" and "trust" have anything to do
with this. Paul's tells us that this happened while his readers "were
yet dead"; that is to say that they were in a state of death when
Christ accomplished this quickening on their behalf.
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How about these verses:
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that heareth my word,
and believeth on him that sent
me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death unto life.
BT: I very much love this verse; it is one of
my favorites. It speaks to the assurance of salvation for those who
believe. Yet it does not take away from the possibility of salvation for
some who do not believe -- and I am thinking primarily of people who
have not rejected Jesus Christ. They are not necessarily condemned,
although they lack the assurance of belief.
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1 John 3:14 John We know that we have
passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that
loveth not his brother abideth in
death.
BT: John's writings are rich with contrasts:
light vs darkness; love vs hate; truth vs lies; life vs death; children of God
vs children of the devil,
and on and on. To conclude that this is all about spiritual life vs spiritual death is to
miss much of the thrust of his writing. He is talking about "abiding" in
God, which is to say that he is addressing our entire being, our whole
person in relation to God, and not just the spiritual aspect.
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If we can pass from death unto life if we
are not dead first? Not physically dead, but spiritually
dead.
BT: I am addressing this in a response to
Izzy. You can watch for that
post. In the meantime may I suggest that you do a study on the
NT use of the word
"regeneration"? Check it out for yourself and see if you don't agree
with me that the NT does not use
the term, as most modern Christians do, for that which goes on in the
"heart" of new converts. That should sort of set the tone for my
response. I think you shall find that this term is used not of
existential experiences in the here and now, but of eschatological events -- when Christ
returns and the quick and the dead are judged and all things shall be
made anew. And if you press on, I believe you will also
find that it is wholly bound up with the merciful activity
of God alone in the Holy Spirit
through Jesus Christ our Savior; that it really has nothing to do with
anything we have done ourselves.
'Til tomorrow evening
sometime,
Bill
