Thanks Blaine, that reminds me.....
LDS ETERNAL UNIVERSE, PROGRESSION is
BIBLICALLY UNTENABLE
Science tells us for every effect there is a cause.
The God of the Bible is the Cause of ALL that exists
The god of Mormonism comes out of what already existed, so what is the root cause?
Ther God of the Bible can CREATE (He created the Universe & ALL THINGS therein )
Gen. 1:1; Is. 66:1-2; Ps. 33:6-9; Jn. 1:3; Acts 4:24; 17:24-25; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2
The god of the BoM just organizes and CHANGES what is already there!
BoM postulates a Beginningless Creation ( Unscientific as all things wind down therefore the Universe can not be Eternal)
ETERNAL PROGRESSION is PHILOSOPHICALLY UNTENABLE
Christian philosopher J.P. Moreland points out that, an actual infinite is a timeless totality which neither increases nor decreases in the number of members it contains
. On the other hand, a potential infinite increases its number through time by adding new numbers to the series.
In order to be INFINITE there must be NO Beginning!
SCIENTIFICALLY UNTENABLE
The Second Law of Thermodynamics
we know that the universe cannot be eternal; it could not have been dissipating forever. If it had been eternally dissipating, it would have run down long ago
..Working backwards, the [second law of thermodynamics] clearly points to a beginning. Fred Heeren, Show Me God: What the Message From Space is Telling Us About God (Wheeling, IL: Searchlight Publications, 1995) 103. (too bad lance is not around as this is nice reading)
BIG BANG COSMOLOGY
time itself must have a beginning. Steven Hawking ( space-time theorem of general relativity.) as quoted in Hugh Ross, Creator and the Cosmos (Colorado Springs: Navpress, 1995) 52.
"The study of physics tells us that matter and time and space must all occur together: if there is no matter, there can be no space or time either
Therefore, when God created the universe he also created time
.Time, therefore does not have existence in itself, but, like the rest of creation, depends on Gods eternal being and power to keep it existing" Wayne Grudem, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1994) 169
The God of the Bible is the CREATOR & CAUSE of that UNIVERSE & TIME
The god of the BoM is Held Bound by that Universe.
Just one more FATAL problem with Mormon Theology
Who came first God or man?
Since God NEEDS to be a man first to progress from, BUT the man NEEDS a God to ORGANIZE the elements into an Earth where he can progress
How do LDS get around this FATAL FLAW?
"There has always existed a boundless infinitude of space...Intermingled with this space there exist all the varieties of the elements, properties, or things of which intelligence takes cognizance; which elements or things taken altogether compose what is called the Universe...The elements of all these properties or things are eternal, uncreated, self-existing. Not one particle can be added to them by creative power. Neither can one particle be diminished or annihilated." Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (Salt Lake City: George Q. Cannon & Sons Co., 1891) 44.
"The elements are eternal. That which has a beginning will surely have an end; take a ring, it is without beginning or end -- cut it for a beginning place and at the same time you will have an ending place...." Richard C. Gilbraith, Scriptural Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Desert Book Co., 1993) 205.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A Mormon doctrine relating to the body and the spirit--check it out for what it is worth to you: (Jesus Christ speaking:)The spirit of truth is of God. I am the spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fullness of truth, yea, even of all truth;And no man receiveth a fullness of truth unless he keepeth His (the father's) commandments.He that keepeth His commandments receiveth truth and light and knoweth all things.Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise, there is no existence.Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation, forMan is spirit.The elements are eternal, and spirit and element inseparably connected receive a fullness of joy, andwhen separated, man cannot receive a fullness of joy. The elements are the tabernacle of God, even temples, andwhatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.D&C 93:26-35In a message dated 7/27/2005 6:50:14 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:You may have something here -- I don't know . But thanks for your input.Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:49:07 EDT
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death
In a message dated 7/26/2005 8:51:11 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Do I miss the point? The body, soul, mind and spirit are so integral to each other as to be without separation. If we are alive , we are alive in total. If we are dead, we are dead in total. Our bodies will be raised and reunited with soul mind and spirit (correct?) THEN transformed into a form we have yet to learn (I John 3:2) "Spiritual death" as a phrase tends to eliminate from our thinking the body, the mind and perhaps the spirit or the soul (if there is a difference). ??????????????????????????JDBlainer: This seems a little confusing to me, w/o definitions in the first place as to what you mean by soul, spirit, mind, etc. I think I read you on what "body" means. :>) That's a no-brainer.(Mormons believe a soul is the combo of spirit and body--just so you can see where I am coming from.)
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