Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

[Kevin Deegan]

I cannot think of anything that book that conflicts with that statement. JD  

 

Well.....

That settles it then.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 

 

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 02:22:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

As I see it,  they didn't.  "Death" in Genesis only refers to physical death.  

I cannot think of anything that book that conflicts with that statement. JD  

 

jt: I can JD - Look at the "mystery of godliness" in the 2nd Adam (1 Timothy 3:16)

God was manifested in the flesh

Justified or vindicated in the spirit

Why if the death was physical in the garden wasn't he justified in the flesh?

We are propagating the same error all over again. 

You are saying that God didn't mean what He said when He told Adam

THE DAY you eat you shall surely die, not 960 yrs down the road. 

Note: A day is defined in Genesis lest we get to the 1,000 yr day speculations. 

Is God like human parents who threaten but don't follow through?  

 

It is always kind of humorous how you bob and weave through a discussion.  I raise a question

about the Genesis text  -  you assert that there IS an answer to be found in Genesis ("I can JD") and then proceed to ignore the Genesis text altogether.  You know full well that God can change His mind.   When Adam heard ".... you shall Shirely die  "  there is no doubt that he thought of physical death.  God simply changed His mind about this punishment.  it's called grace !!!

 

 

jd: I am saying that God, in His grace, changed His mind.  

Jere 18 makes it clear that He can do such.  

 

jt: When you are God you can do anything you want but why?

What evidence do you have that he changed his mind?

In Jeremiah 18:8 He only relents on condition that they repent.

 

You can establish rules for God's conduct all you want, Judy, but I will not buy any of it.  The point is this:   God can change His mind about anything.  Jere 18 presents a specific change of mind.   And God repented that he ever made man, in the days of Noah.   God changes His mind and when He first promised punishment, this change of mind is a blessing of grace...  

 

jd: Could you help me find the reference in the OT when

the writer finally got around to meaning something other than

the inclusive of physical death?  

 

jt: A&E lost fellowship with God when they sinned and both were

banished from His garden - By Genesis 6:3 the gulf had gotten so

wide that God is saying "My Spirit shall not strive with man  forever

for he is flesh" and man's days were shortened to 120yrs (they are

even less now).  The statement "he is flesh" here does not mean

"he is a physical body"

 

In fact, it means that his whole existence centered around his fleshly nature, his body.  

 

jd: Is it not true that our bodies will be raised on that last day,

transformed and (for some) presented with death in the "lake of fire?" 

 

jt: Yes, everyone will be raised on the last day, some to life eternal and

others to everlasting death. 

 

jd: That death includes the whole man -  body, soul mind and spirit. 

 

jt: The object is for the soul to be saved from God's wrath JD which is against

all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men and the redeemed will have a

transformed body; no guarantee that it is just like the one you have right now

The disciples did not recognize Jesus on the road to Emmaus and when

he appears to John the beloved in the book of Revelation the one who once

leaned on his breast is terrified and falls on his face.

 

All of this might be true  --  but what body is transformed?  How earthly body.   Why does God not allow the physical body to remain in the grave?    BECAUSE MAN CAN LIVE (ETERNALLY) WITHOUT IT  (transformed, transfigured or whatever)!!   Our sould does not exist apart from our body. 

 

jd: I am kinda of like DM on this one  --  the more I think about it, the

better I like it. 

 

jt: Why?  What's so great about the body you have now? 

 

Remember when I said that if I were to share all the miracles and blessings God has provided me, you (all) would be jealous)?    Well,  my body is one of those blessings  !!!!   A magnificent declaration of God's creative powers!!!

 

judyt

There are two C's in the christian life
Either I am changing daily to be more like Christ
Or I am being chastised by Him

 

I have another "C"   --------------charis, my dear, charis.

 

JD

 

 

 

 

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