Re: [TruthTalk] The Humanity of Jesus

[Judy Taylor]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:47:00 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Izzy is red:   On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:03:12 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy, yes the RCC does teach original sin, and so does the Presbyterian church.  That is why they baptize infants, because they believe they go to hell if they are not baptized.  jt: The PCA Church I attend does not believe or teach that. They teach covenant and the parents are the ones who covenant  with God before the ppl to raise the child in the faith.  I'm in their classes now checking it out.   So are they just “dedicating” rather than baptizing the infant?   jt: They call it baptizing but they tell us in the class that whatever we want to call it is fine but basically it is a covenant between the parents God, and the ppl as a community of faith.   Do you believe that infants go to hell?  If so, you believe in original sin, too.  If not, then you do not.   jt: I believe God honors covenant. Although King David's child was born because of his sin with Bathsheba, after it's death he said he knew that he would go to be with it but that the child could not rejoin him.    So you do not believe infants go to hell? Is that what you are saying?   jt: Not necessarily; I don't like to make rules for God. I think that the children of the righteous are sanctified; according to scripture the offspring of the wicked are not so blessed but we can rest in hope knowing that God is completely holy, righteous, and just and that He has done everything possible for us.    It seems that you have stated that we are born with sinful flesh and are born guilty before God of sin, even before actually sinning.  jt: Not exactly - I said we are born with an inheritance in sin...under the curse because of the iniquities of the fathers - some more so than others.   Can you explain what an “inheritance in sin” is exactly? Does it mean you are guilty before God, even if you have not actually committed a sin?   jt: Death reigned from Adam to Moses, all were and are under the curse of Genesis 3:19. Morally many of us have been raised and trained in unrighteousness which is why we have had to be redeemed from the vain tradition received from our fathers (1 Peter 1:18)   Then I think you said you don't really believe that newborns go to hell.  This is contradictory.  What do you believe about original sin?  izzy jt: I'm not sure what the rcc teaches that everyone calls "original sin" but if we evaluate by what they teach about most everything else then I figure it can't be good...   It is not just the RCC that teaches there is “original sin”—I was also taught That in the Presbyterian church.  Several denominations, mostly high church, Teach that we are born guilty of sin because we inherited it.  Is that what you  believe or not?  You need to think that through if you have not.  Izzy   jt: I believe the scriptures teach that mankind is born into death and that sin becomes progressively worse generationally.  Five generations after Adam God destroyed all but 8 people and things will be that bad again when Jesus returns (as in the days of Noah)   Please review this Wikipedia website definition of “original sin” to see if This is what you subscribe to or not.   There are different definitions by differing denominations.Then please let me know which, if any, explain your viewpoint.  Thanks! izzy  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin     jt: Haven't had time to go there yet but I will.  Thanks for the URL. I didn't know there were different definitions for different denominations but am not surprised.  Have you dismissed this concept Izzy?  If so, why?