RE: [TruthTalk] The Humanity of Jesus

[Kevin Deegan]

WICKED from the PITS of HELL!!!!!!

"Having thus shown why men must be endowed with agency, Lehi bears his own witness that such is, in fact, the case. "There is a God," he says, "and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon. And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter. Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was ENTICED by the one or the other." (2 Nephi 2:11-16.) Thus we see why the Lord gave two conflicting commandments -- one to become mortal and have children, the other to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil out of which mortality and children and death would result. The issue is one of choosing between opposites. Adam must choose to become mortal so he could have children, on the one hand; on the other hand, he must choose to remain forever in the garden in a state of innocence. He chose to partake of the forbidden fruit so that the purposes of God might be accomplished by providing a probationary estate for his spirit children. Adam must needs fall so that he would know good from evil, virtue from vice, righteousness from wickedness. He could not have done this without breaking a law and becoming subject to sin. He chose the Lord's way; there was no other way whereby salvation might come unto the children of men." (Apostle McConkie A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.91)

 

I THINK THE LORD HE IS TALKING ABOUT IS A DIFFERENT CHARACTER THAN THE LORD OF GLORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

"For reasons that have not been revealed, this transition, or "fall," could not happen without a transgression-an exercise of moral agency amounting to a willful breaking of a law (see Moses 6:59). This would be a planned offense, a formality to serve an eternal purpose. The Prophet Lehi explained that "if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen" but would have remained in the same state in which he was created (2 nephi 2:22). Missionary Preparation, Religion 130 p 74 Lesson 10

 

CHOOSE SIN 1 or 2?

Moses 3:16-17 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, But of the tree of the aknowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

But was it God's plan that HAD to be carried out?

This is why you have been called CRAFTY, carefully picking & choosing.

 

I thought the Mormon gods called a council and accepted Jesus plan?

ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks.  Now do you think it was a good thing that they were tempted; ie part of God's plan? iz

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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:13 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Humanity of Jesus

I did not say that God tempted Adam and Eve.....that is what Kevin has been to trying to make you think we believe.

DAVEH:  I thought the above was the answer to your question.  However in reviewing it, technically that calls for an assumption on your part...so, I should have been more specific..  

    FTR....I do NOT believe God tempted Adam and Eve.  I believe (and LDS Doctrine teaches) that Lucifer tempted them.

ShieldsFamily wrote:

Then why don't you just answer the question? Did God tempt A&E? iz

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DAVEH:  Therein lies the problem, Izzy.  When you hear other TTers saying something untrue about my beliefs, you assume they are correct.    Go back and read what I posted.  I did not say that God tempted Adam and Eve.....that is what Kevin has been to trying to make you think we believe.

ShieldsFamily wrote:

You keep saying the God tempted Adam and Eve.  The Bible says the Snake did it.  Which one do you believe? iz

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DAVEH:  Do you believe the Snake represents God or Satan, Izzy?  If you think LDS folks believe the Snake to represent "God", then perhaps you would logically and correctly conclude that LDS folks believe God tempted man.  If LDS folks believe the Snake represents Satan, then the logic of Kevin's argument falls apart.

ShieldsFamily wrote:

(Ever hear of the Snake, Dave?) iz

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DAVEH:  Normally I do not engage you in theological discussions, Kevin.  But I'm having trouble resisting on this one.  Do you literally believe the Bible when it says that God tempts no man to sin?  Assuming the answer is yes, then is it not be true that God did not tempt the only man alive to sin in the Garden of Eden?  For that matter, who tempted woman in the Garden....do you believe LDS folks teach it was God as your below logic suggests?   If not, then why would you use such illogical reasoning to explain why my beliefs are wrong?

    Aarrrrggggggggh......I wish I had the fortitude to not bend my own rules!     :-(

Kevin Deegan wrote:

LDS belief posits that A&E sinned because it was God's plan that they must sin in order to allow them to procreate. This proves that the God of Mormonism is not the same charater as the God of the bible who tempts no man to sin! it is that "Angel of light" that tempts men to sin.

Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

DAVEH:  I find that an interesting response, Perry.  Why do you think it is a pure waste of time to consider what God wanted, and Lucifer frustrated?  Extrapolating that logic, it would be a waste of time for folks to talk about becoming perfect as commanded by the Lord.

Perry wrote:
What is the purpose of this conjecture? Adam and Eve fell, so it is a pure waste of time to conjecture otherwise.

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