Re: [TruthTalk] God is a Relational God: Father, Son, Spirit

[Judy Taylor]

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:34:55 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Only you can know that happened in this case.   I do not.  

 

The Natalee Holloway case is/was not the POINT here JD, you are going off on one more rabbit trail.

The subject was spiritual maturity and whether or not this is an example of the spiritual warfare we

are also involved in.  You stated I am seeing it where there is none.

 

But I do know that God teaches lessons caused by evil circumstance (Hebs 12). 

 

He allows us to be tested as A&E were in the garden and our response determines much about

our future.  Too late for a lesson when you are dead.

 

He does not cause them to be the case. Your view that I am of Calvanistic thinking reveals your

systemic confusion about things normal.  JD

 

You use yourself as a basis for what is normal JD.  Really!!!! You may not be a five point or even

a four point Calvinist - My statement was based on Andrew and your agreement that God is basically

or ultimately responsible. Apparently you don't see it but then this is not unusual so why am I not

surprised?  Accusation appears to be your forte. 

 

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:05:43 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You seem to allow for an obedience that is less than perfection  -  something we both agree upon.  

You see time limits where none exist.   You see spiritual warfare where none exist  (the Holloway girl

was not murdered by the will of God because of she lacked spiritual discernment, for example). 

 

I find your response here interesting JD.  So you don't believe she perished "for lack of knowledge"

as per Hosea 4:6.  You think a sweet little Baptist girl such as Natalee Holloway who was a very

high achiever with a full scholarship to the U of AL and a full future ahead of her should hang out

in dens of iniquity like Carlos and Charlies in Aruba?  Do you think she was witnessing to Joran

Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers who were there for predatory reasons only?

 

Think about it for a minute.  If Paul, who was a chosen vessel - sent to the Gentiles and who

walked in spiritual discernment with all nine gifts working through his hands would ask the Church

at Thessalonica to pray for him - so that he would be delivered from perverse and evil men,

for all men have not faith (2 Thess 3:2) ... Where in the world would you get the idea that no

spiritual warfare exists and that I am stating that Natalee Holoway was murdered by the will of God?

other than from your own indwelling Calvinistic bent that most likely you will refuse to acknowledge.

 

 

 

From: Judy Taylor jandgtaylor1@juno.com writes:

There are no known time limits for immaturity.   God is patient and forgiving . 

 

There are limits JD though they may not be widely known.  Israel reached them.

and God was just as patient and forgiving then. He has not changed His personality. 

Think about it - one whole generation had to die in the wilderness; and later the

whole nation was taken into captivity. Hosea 4:6 is every bit as relevant today.

In fact I see the Natalee Holloway incident as a perfect example of this. She was a

good Baptist girl and both parents are good Baptists. Obviously the girl was naive

and spiritually undiscerning.  She had no business being where she was and had

no defense in dealing with the wolves she was confronted with there - from all

appearances she has perished leaving a grieving family. Is God glorified in this??

 

Condemnation has been removed  -- something upon which you and I disagree. 

 

Only for those walking after the Spirit JD (see Romans 8:1,2 in something other

than the NIV) Those walking after the flesh will continue to produce it's fruit

 

When it comes to counsel, Judy,  you have no message of hope for those who are

trapped within their own finiteness.  

 

Of course I have JD, my message is that Jesus died so that they can be free in

their walk .. not just their talk.

 

The gospel I know to be true is that which proclaims deliverance from the

penalties of sin,  not necessarily from the effects of sin.  So, the addict has all

the time in world to make the changes he needs to make. 

 

I don't believe it is the same gospel as the one that I know to be true JD.

We are saved from the wrath of God when we exchange sin for righteousness in

Christ.  However, the results/effects of sin will remain so long as one is sinning.

Sin is deceitful; I know a girl who made a committment to Christ but is not willing

to trust Him in an area causing her to have cluster migraines. She has not been

delivered from these and is now to the point of getting around with a morphine

pump which over time is becoming less effective.  Is this your gospel JD? 

 

He does have choices to make if his life is to be what God in Christ has ordained

it to be via the accomplishment of the reconciliation of all things.   Grace verses

works of law.  Jd 

 

Grace in my gospel JD is the power to overcome. How can one who is overcome

by sin and sickness (hobbling about with a morphine pump) be one with an

overcoming people who will judge nations?  If your gospel does not cause them

to become victors in Christ - then it is one that is void of power and your definition

of grace in actuality is a cover for sin.

 

 

From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>

JD writes:

 

jt: Both God and the devil know when they are being conned; a sincere baby believer who is

doing the best they know how may be protected for a time.  However, the curse is all over

those who are still on pablum when they should be ready for strong meat. 

 

Baloney. 

 

I find your response here both amazing and disheartening JD - especially since you

are out there trying to counsel ppl and spread what you believe.  Don't you pay any

mind to the example of Israel and the repeated warnings to us not to replicate their

folly and here you are not only advocating doing the same but encouraging others.

 

Please do a study on the doctrine of Balaam.