According to the D&C, JS said that god said that any man who does not
practice polygamy is damned. Dave, are you practicing polygamy, or are you
damned?
Perry
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TruthTalk] Polygamy
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:26:26 -0700
DAVEH: BTW.......I'm changing the subject line, and responding in
RED.......
Judy Taylor wrote:
DAVEH: When was the law of monogamy introduced, Judy? IF you believe
it was initiated in the Garden of Eden, then at what point was it first
violated?
Well Daveh there is no record that Adam had more than
one
wife is there? We don't know about Cain and Abel
but by Genesis 6 mankind was in such a mess that God was
repenting about ever getting involved with them to
begin with.
DAVEH: I'm not sure how that answers my question, Judy. When do
you believe the law of manogamy was initiated? And....Do you
believe those OT prophets who practiced polygamy violated it?
Guess I didn't make it clear; I think if God wanted Adam to have
ten wives he would have given him more at
the start and he wouldn't have made the pronouncement about a man
and a woman being ONE flesh which
Jesus reiterated in the gospels.
DAVEH: Thanx Judy.....that answers my question in a roundabout way. As
I see it, you are making some assumptions, and I don't think your argument
is logically correct, but at least I know now why you believe as you
do....thanx again.
FWIW.....That Jesus and God are one, does not preclude others from
being one with them as well. Therefore, IF Adam had had more than one
wife, I would think they also could qualify as *one*.
Mankind's fallen nature but this is not what God ordained at
the beginning: see Mark 10:6-12. I would say that in God's
eyesight a polygamous relationship is also an adulterous one.
DAVEH: Those passages do not say such as I read them. Do you
believe that is the message conveyed in them? Adultery was a
part of the Law, yet many OT prophets were
polygamists. Logically, wouldn't they have been committing
adultery by having plural wives IF in God's eyesight a polygamous
relationship is also an adulterous one??? Yet the Bible does not
condemn them for such, excepting for the Bathsheba incident which
is clearly sinful despite it's polygamous overtones. Had David
not been married at all, his actions would have been a
transgression, I think you'd agree.
As I have already said the OT ppl including God's prophets had a
heart problem along with a "love" problem
Solomon carrying it to the max. Under the New Covenant rather
than being released from the Law's demands
as per JD. Much more is required from us - we are to keep the
spirit of the Law which includes being monagamous.God may not have
dealt with this under the old covenant but today He tells all men
to "Repent"
DAVEH: "Repent".....Of their iniquities.....the question is whether God
considered polygamy to be an iniquity in the OT. That it was not a part of
the Law, I would think it would not qualify as an iniquity at that time,
and therefore not need repentance.
Here's something to ponder, Judy. The Law of Moses forbade a woman
having multiple husbands, with death being the punishment. However, there
was no law preventing men from having multiple wives. Either that is
chauvinistic, or it would imply that polygamy had a more noble purpose.
As I see it, that reason included building up God's people much faster than
possible in other ways. It apparently was so important that virgin women
of other nations who were defeated were taken as wives for polygamous
relationships.
DAVEH: Where in the Bible (including the NT) do you believe He
tells all men to "Repent" of polygamy?
When we come under the Royal Law which is love. Polygamy is lust.
DAVEH: While lust can at times be associated with polygamy as we see in
the case of David, I don't quite understand why you would not also
associate love with polygamy.
No man can be a decent husband to ten wives or a hands on dad to
so many children.
DAVEH: Do you feel that way about David or Solomon, both who were
favored by the Lord up to the point of their transgressions. Solomon
loved the Lord (1Kg 3:3), yet his problems did not arise because of
polygamy, but rather his turning away from God. The Lord did not chastise
either of them for multiple wives, but rather for their failure to conduct
themselves properly.
excepting those instances where such action was based on sinful
intent and actions, such as was the case with Bathsheba. 2Sam
12:8-12 even suggests that in the aforementioned incident, God
gave those wives to David,
and furthermore would give those wives to his neighbor. Does
that not imply that God might be condoning this polygamous
relationship? No it does not imply that God
condones polygamy; this was a
middle east custom that didn't come from God.
DAVEH: I had not heard that reasoning before. Do you have any
specific evidence that suggests the Hebrews borrowed polygamy from
other nations?
I understand that when Sarah and Abraham tried to fulfill God's
promise after the flesh by Sarah's handmaiden
that this was the custom of the surrounding nations.
DAVEH: Methusael's son Lamech is the first recorded polygamist as
described in Gen 4:19. I would think that predates the theory of polygamy
being borrowed from other nations.
It certainly was not God's idea and look at the chaos it
caused which is still ongoing in our present generation.
DAVEH: Do you believe God's covenant with Abraham could have been
fulfilled had he *not *been a polygamist?
Moses had one wife at a time and so did Abraham
and Isaac.
DAVEH: I did not realize that some Christians do not believe Abraham
practiced polygamy. I assume you are making assumptions that are not
supported by Scripture....? In support of my belief, Gen 16:3 explains...
*And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had
dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to
be his wife.*
.....that Abraham practiced polygamy, as I see it. Had he not taken Hagar
as a wife, he would have committed adultery, a sin punishable by death.
That Hagar was advised by an angel to return to the situation, and then
promised that her seed would multiply exceedingly......does that not
suggest that the Lord did not find her actions (of living in a polygamous
relationship) reprehensible? Do you disagree?
As for Isaac.....don't you find it interesting that the Lord tended to
favor both his father (Abraham) and son (Jacob) who were polygamists?
Through their (A & J) polygamous relationships, the Lord's covenant was
fulfilled.
Regarding Moses......he had two wives. I would suggest it is just as
likely he was married to them at the same time than not, though I do not
think the Bible clarifies it. Zondervan suggests.....
*It may be that Miriam resented it as an affront to .*
........may have been the root of Miriam and Aaron's criticism for marrying
the Ethiopian woman.
Seems to me like Jacob the deceiver is where the multiples began
when he was deceived by his
father-in-law rather than by his own original intent.
DAVEH: As I see it, Abraham qualifies as one who predated Jacob as a
polygamist. And as explained above, Abraham was not the first recorded
polygamist.
Got to go for now - will have to continue later..... jt
DAVEH: Thanx for taking the time you do to share your thoughts with me,
Judy. I do understand that you disagree with me on these things. But
from my perspective, the Bible is pretty clear about much of this. Either
I am grossly misunderstanding it, or when we each read about these things
in the Bible we are influenced by our individual biases to the point where
we exclude other possibilities. For instance.....when you look at some of
the OT polygamy situations, you see the sin associated with them. When I
view them, I see the good that comes from them. Obviously....our biases
color our perception.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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