Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

[Terry Clifton]

You want me to get lumps all over my head?  She's a good woman, but not quite as forgiving as the Lord. Kevin Deegan wrote: TERRY says, still, I can't help but think that believing that Jesus and Satan were brothers is pushing it, really testing the mercy of God. Try that one with your wife see if she thinks calling her Satan's brother is "pushing it" a bit : ) --- Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 10/16/2005 10:00:04 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter gun parts benelli I know that some of what Dave believes has no basis in the Holy Bible. That can very likely be said to some extent about each of us. Traditions die hard. No one seems willing to admit that grandpa was an idiot for believing some of the things he did. Instead, we follow in grandpa's footsteps until the warning light comes on and we check it out in the Word and learn better what to believe. Since Dave is all wet and we are only a little damp, the temptation is to write him off. The problem is, none of us know how far God's mercy extends. If He looks at Dave's heart, or your heart, or my heart, and sees selfless love for Him, does that make up for buying into false teachings? If so, how far off base can you be and still be acceptable to God? I do not know, so I also must accept Dave as a believer since that is his claim; still, I can't help but think that believing that Jesus and Satan were brothers is pushing it, really testing the mercy of God. cd: see DaveH this is why I come here-to correct this type of belief. Damage control. Terry if I have said anything to help you come to this conclusion I apologized for not explaining myself better. Yes one can be saved by simply believing upon Christ as the way of forgiveness but it must be the Christ of the Bible-A Jesus who has been with God from the beginning-a Jesus whom is part of the trinity Mormon do not hold this view they have three separate Gods.Their Jesus is only God of this world because he Believed upon a God whom had sex with Mary. ================================================================ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have highlighted something you said, Terry, that is of great importance to me. DaveH recently spoke of Christ being his redeemer and Savior. I make the same claim. IN THAT DECLARATION, he and I are brothers. We do not express that claim in the same ways -- but the claim is the same. And JESUS is the Savior, not the church, or the preacher, or the prophet of God. It is before his own Master that he stands or falls, and he will be made to stand !!!! (Ro 14:4). Is he or other claimants saved? I don't know. But I do know that Rom ans 14:4 should have something to say in that discussion. I do know, that the words "God works all things for good to them who love the Lord and ....." probably includes things that have to do with my salvation. He takes the wrong I do, does not bring it into account, and [thus] works a good that benefits me eternally. Thanks for the words Jd -----Original Message----- From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:34:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter Up to a point, I am in agreement with you, Dave. When John wrote of Jesus, he recorded something very interesting that we find in chapter five, about the middle of verse twenty-eight.."the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth -- those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation." Jesus was stating that He had the authority not only to raise the dead, but also to judge them, sending some to Hell and inviting others to live eternally with Him. From other things that He said in other scriptures, we know that these are not the only things taken into consideration. You can do all the good works you can do, for as long as you can do them, and still go to Hell if your faith is not in Christ as your Savior. Evidently one can also claim to be a follower of Christ but the evil pattern of one's life makes a lie o f one's claim and that person is also condemned to Hell. Those who deny self, follow Christ, shun evil and do good get the reward. Mother Teresa, it was reported at one time, was not sure of her salvation. How true that is I do not know. If she did her works out of love for her Savior and her fellow man, she most certainly will be closer to the throne than me, but if she did these works hoping they would save her, she is begging for a drop of water at this moment and will be forever. I strongly feel that she did her works out of love, but like you, I am in no position to judge. We are clearly taught that we are not to judge another's works. Jesus will handle that without our help, and that is a good thing. I have an opinion about everyone on this list, but I am not qualified to say who is saved and who is not. I do not know your heart, or Izzy's, and you do not know mine. We all claim Christ as our savior. All we can do without evidence to the contrary is accept one another on the basis of that claim. It is soooo tempting to say "He or she does not believe as I do, therefore he or she cannot be saved ." "If they were saved, they would believe as I do", is our pride speaking. We have become modern day Pharisees. We have it all figured out. Once we get the beam out of our eye though, we are commanded not to throw pearls to swine or a holy sacrifice to the dogs. If we do not make a judgment call, how do we tell the hogs and dogs from the Holy? It is important to know, because if you do what you are commanded not to do, they will turn and tear you to pieces. It is pretty obviou s that you should not go into a Mosque in Iraq and start preaching Jesus and calling Allah a false god. They would tear the pieces to pieces. The same thing might happen if you preached against looting in the middle of a race riot. But where is the line? At what point can we say this is a hog and this is a dog, and this one needs to hear about Christ? Do we draw the line at holy underwear? Does smoking make you a hog or a dog? If you think you can sin tonight and do penance tomorrow, are you a hog or not? What if you preach salvation without repentance? Are you a holy because you preach, or are you a dog because you don't mention repentance? It's a good thing God looks at the heart. Yes sir, a real good thing. Terry Dave Hansen wrote: DAVEH: Sorry about that, Lance. I had hoped you would understand the underlying humor in my answer. To give you a serious answer, let me offer the example of what I perceive to be true of Mother Theresa. Neither you or I believe that the RCC folks espouse true theology, yet apparently MT was a true Christian due to her love of those who were disadvantaged. Is there any truer Christian than one who gives her (or his) life to others? I don't think so. There are many Christian folk who believe in doctrines that I think are in error. From my perspectiv e that does not make them any less Christian than one how professes true doctrine, but yet whose works demonstrate no motivation for being a Christian. There are a lot of goodly (and Godly) sincere Christians in the world who believe opposing doctrines. It is not for me to judge them as inadequate in the Lord's eyes. I'll leave the judging to the Judge, and as for myself.....I'll try to worry more about how to treat others with respect even though I may disagree with their beliefs. Lance Muir wrote: I'm not asking you to speak for God, Dave. I'm asking for you to speak within the context of your own tradition. You may recall my various attempts to address the question 'Who is Jesus?'. Now, whatever the variance within the Christian tradition(s) (I do not consider Mormonism Christian), there isn't simply a 'variance' between you and I. FWIW, I DO BELIEVE that such as Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and Christadelphians MAY be born from above even through a maze of heretical beliefs (IMO). DAVEH: How would I know, Lance??? Perhaps Brother Dean can answer that question from his personal experience! :-D Lance Muir wrote: Is it possible for one to have a true heart connection (be born from above) with God through Christ by the Spirit while espousing beliefs via one's dogma that are intrinsically unreal (false)? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. 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