Re: [TruthTalk] Restoration versus condemnation-David Miller

[Dave Hansen]

Charles Perry Locke wrote: DAVEH:   No.  I was merely trying to inject a measure of humor (denoted by the :-D ) into the discussion, as you guys seem to get so serious that you apparently believe some of the stuff you post that is way off the wall. Someyimes it is a thin line between humor and abasement. DAVEH:   Agreed.  And, there are times when one can see the humor in a comment while another fails to see it and takes it in a negative light instead.  That's why we use smilies when communicating via email.....it helps make others understand the nature of the comment and how it is to be understood.  However.....as you've nearly alluded to, sometimes there is a double meaning in what is conveyed.  Jesus did that a lot, though I don't think he tried to inject humor into the message while doing so.    Yeah....you guys are having an effect on me for sure, but it isn't the effect you wanted, or even hoped for. I learned long ago that people can be saying one thing, and sometimes even believe it, while revealing their real feelings with signals in their words, body language, _expression_. I do not have the advantage of seeing your expressions and body language, but your response to Dean revealed much. DAVEH:   The problem as I see it Perry, is that you tend to misunderstand (or perhaps misinterpret) a lot of what I do say.  I consequently send further explanations to clarify that, and you often times get the message after doing so.  I've also found you can read my words and understand them, but yet fail to believe them.  I can't do much to correct your deficiency in that matter though, regardless of how many times I try to explain it.    That's why your comments at the beginning of this post are so interesting.  Why would anybody with any common sense think I would be enamored with somebody who uses falsehoods to try to intimidate me into believing other things they say?  Do you understand how logically asinine this is from my perspective, Perry? "Enamored" is not what I said or meant. Where did you get that idea? DAVEH:   I realize you did not use that term....it was mine to reflect how I perceive you might think IF I were to follow your advice.  I don't think I explained that very well, so let me try again.  If you (or Dean) wants to convert me from my LDS beliefs, then why would you (or he) purposely mis characterize those beliefs?  What's the purpose....to embarrass me into leaving Mormonism because other TTers who read your comments will think I'm stupid for believing such strange things?  Well, from a Protestant's perspective, we really do believe a lot of peculiar things, so I don't see why anybody needs to hype up the rhetoric with flatly untrue things.  I simply don't get it....what good does it do you guys to lie about what I believe???  Does anybody really expect me to change my ways when tactics like that are used? 'Awe' and 'fear' do not equate with "enamor". Imagine how the demons in Matt 8:29 must have felt when Jesus prepared to cast him out of the demoniacs. That is how I perceived you at that moment. DAVEH:   You can feel any way you wish about me, Perry.  I however do not have the same feeling that you may imagine. Matt 8:29: "And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" Fourth, TT  IS a battleground when Satan enters the camp, regardless of from which of his strongholds he enters. DAVEH:   Really?   I did not know that.  I thought even atheists, devil worshiper or the devil himself would be welcome to post on TT if they so wished. You miss the point. All are welcome, but they must be prepared to have their heresy refuted. DAVEH:   By TTers lying about what they perceive to be heresies???  How does that refute anything? Who knows, one or more of those you mention may already be on TT!    Notwithstanding that, let's just suppose that you are right (and I'd be curious to hear DavidM's perspective on that, since he's the one who set TT up and laid the ground rules) and that Satan is fair game for battle.  Would you use truth to wage war against evil, or would you use lies and mistruth to fight him? Pretty childish question from my perspective. DAVEH:   There's the problem, Perry.  You are myopic.  What makes you think I care about your perspective.  When a lie is proffered about my perspective, my ears perk up and I begin to wonder about how much one can believe about other things that liar says.  And, I wonder about his agenda....how truthful and important is the paradigm that produces one who cannot be trusted to speak the truth.  Now I always allow for an honest mistake, so IF I correct the lie and the person who presented it acknowledges it to be a mistake, the problem is resolved.  BUT....when he continues to repeat the same lie despite my efforts to show his error....then what do you expect me to think? The truth of Jesus Christ will always prevail over evil. I think that is why you get so bent out of shape, call TT untruthful, "play" with protestants and their beliefs. DAVEH:   LOL........Here's another one of those times I want to laugh out loud!   No real Christian would stoop to Satan's level to fight him. He must be fought with the Sword of the Word. Read Mathew 4:1-11. that is our model for refuting Satan. Why do you think I rebut your mormon lies and heresies with Biblical truth rather than heresy and lies like you present? Hey, maybe you use those because lies and heresy are the tools of Satan, the very legacy of the founder of the mormon church! From my perspective, that's what I see happening by some who want to wage a battle with me.  Truth has taken a back seat when it comes to TT Christianity, as I see it. Yeah, but what do you know about truth? That sounds funny coming from one so mired up in the lies, deceit and heresies of the mormon church. The father of your faith is the Devil, and JS was his minion in spreading the lies. Satans fingerprints are all over it. You cannot see it due to your blindness and pride. DAVEH:   FTR....I respectfully disagree with your conclusion, Perry. Why am I not surprised? I would expect no less from a devout mormon. DAVEH:   Yes, pride does often times blind folks from the truth.....but probably not nearly as much as arrogance, I suppose. Fifth, you, David, are the one that brings untruth. DAVEH:  Care to give an example? Dave, I have given you examples for 2.75 years, Kevin has given examples, Dean has given examples, and who knows how many others through your life. You must not have ears to hear. How can so many people give you so many examples, and yet you say, "Care to give an example?" When you are given valid examples, you play the "artful dodger" game, the "mormon side-step", appealing to heretical and unbiblical doctrines and texts to prove a lie, or deny the truth...works both ways. DAVEH:   I'll take that to mean you don't have any specific examples.     Have you ever considered my perspective?   You ask for an example of a lie perpetrated on TT, and I quote Dean as saying.......     the HOLY Ghost is supposed (their claim not mine)to have     came down and had sex with Mary and Jesus was produced from this     sexual act. So their God is a God of Incest. .........and then you claim that I post untruth here and when I ask for an example, you give me the above reply....which is effectively a non answer to my question.  Or at best, a dodge.  And to think you claim that I....... always slips and slides around it .........when responding to your questions.   Is there any sincerity in what you post about me, Perry? The debates between Christians on TT are, for the most prt "in-house" debates DAVEH:   Huh?!?!?!   Who made that rule?  I thought TT was set up to  encourage those who have divergent beliefs to participate in discussions with and between Christians and non Christians.  Am I wrong on that?  Maybe I'm on the wrong forum.  If this is a place that is unfit for Mormons, atheists or others who do not prescribe to the tenets of Protestantism, then you might have a point, Perry.  But I was under the impression that TT was not set up to exclude people. Again, you miss the point. An "in-house" debate is a debate between members of a group about things within the group. Christians in this case. DAVEH:  By definition, I qualify.  So what's the problem, Perry! That would be similar to you and Blaine discussing some mormon heresy together on TT. No problem...I would not feel excluded, and could certainly jump in if I wanted to...just like you often jump into in-house debates among Christians. Don't be so sensitive Dave DAVEH:   LOL ...you are not being excluded, although you keep trying to acuse me of that. If you don't feel like you belong on TT, that is you problem. But, when you bring heresy and lies into this camp, expect to be refuted. ...issues between Christians that can be debated and, in my opinion, should not separate. However, YOUR religion is the one that states that all other religions are an abomnination to god, and that none of them are correct. It is YOUR religion that divides, Dave, not Christianity. DAVEH:   From what I've seen on TT, I think you may have misplaced the blame, Perry.   Dave, there is still time for you. The clock does not run out until the day you die, then it will be too late. Your may think otherwise, but that does not change the eternal truth. DAVEH:   Nor does what you think or believe change the /eternal truth/.  You are presuming you hold the /eternal truth/, and I don't.  As you already know, I find little reason to think you do. That is not my idea, Dave, I got that from the Bible. Free yourself from Satan's hold immediately. Renounce the heresy of JS and the mormon church. Repent and pray for God to forgive you for following false gods. Then find a bible-teaching and preaching church to attend, and bathe yourself in the forgiving mercies of our Lord! Or, continue in your pride and heresy until your death, at which time you will realize how many tried to reach you in the name of Christ, but you refused. You will have no one to blame but yourself. DAVEH:   Forgive me for not heeding your advice, Perry....but I will trust my faith in Jesus Christ to save me, and continue ignoring those who preach lies. Your jesus or the Biblical Jesus? They are not the same. And, if you are calling me a liar in the above statement, either prove it or retract it. DAVEH:  I assume you believe what Dean stated......     the HOLY Ghost is supposed (their claim not mine)to have     came down and had sex with Mary and Jesus was produced from this     sexual act. So their God is a God of Incest. ..........IF I assumed wrong, and you do not believe the above, then I will apologize and retract my above comment, Perry.  IF you continue to publicly espouse Dean's above quote, then I have little reason to apologize as I see it. Perry ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.