Dave,
Do you have any references from the D&C about the nature of the
conception of Jesus? I read the two BoM references you gave and agree that
they support, or at least do not contradict, the virgin birth as described
in Matthew.
I also called my mother-in-law to see what her take (as a mormon) is on
the virgin birth issue. Her response was, "We don't talk about that". Case
closed. But, she further said that she personally has a problem, not from a
theological, but from a personal persective, with the whole concept of the
"father" having incest with one of his literal "children" to produce
offspring. Do you consider that to be incest, the father with his literal
daughter? If so, is incest typically accepted by mormons?
So, until I get your D&C references, the position I hold is that the
standard works support (or, do not contradict) the virgin birth, but that
some of your prophets and leaders are fantastic speculators. I have
reproduced a summary from a web page the comments of several of your
respected church leaders. I don't think there is any mistake that their
position favors a physical act. Of course, as I have already learned, the
mormon prophets and leaders are not to be trusted since we see that they
speculate, teach, and preach things outside of and in contrast to the
standard works, including the Bible!
Summary of mormon "teachings" from leaders on the conception and birth of
Jesus from http://www.carm.org/lds/virginmary.htm :
1. It was the result of natural action, (Brigham Young, Journal of
Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).
2. Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Journal of Discourses,
Vol. 1, page 51); (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 19).
3. "The Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle
instead of letting any other man do it" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, page
218, 1857.)
4. The birth was the result of natural action, (Journal of Discourses,
Vol. 8, p. 115).
5. "The Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well
as in the spirit." (Religious Truths Defined, p. 44)
6. "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal
men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 547.)
7. "There is nothing figurative about his [JesusÂ’] paternity; he was
begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events"
(Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 742.)
Perry
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
DAVEH: I linked to an anti-Mormon site that gives most of the quotes I
think to which you are referring. Like JD, I tire quickly of reading the
garbage, hence only skim Kevin's posts to see if there is anything worth
absorbing.
No, the leaders of the LDS Church do not always speak for the Church.
They have opinions just like everybody else. Many LDS folks believe those
opinions can be or are inspired, but our leaders are fallible.
Furthermore, many of them earn their living authoring books, which is a
place where they can speculate with a larger degree of freedom than if they
were preaching in Church. So, yes......they frequently and often *peak
outside of what you call "official mormon doctrine"*. Even when teaching
what they believe to be truth, it is a level (or more) down from the
official doctrines of the Church that are included in the Standard Works.
If it isn't in the Standard Works....it is not considered as official
doctrine.
Then there is the matter of context. It is very easy to find examples of
Scripture that are seemingly contradictive IF not taken in context. I have
found that a lot of the anti-Mormon material is simply lifted out of
context of the official doctrines of the Church, and then spun (like the
sex/virgin/Mary discussion we are having) to denigrate the Church without
regard to what we actually believe.
1 Nephi 11:13-21 and Alma 7:10, not to mention the Biblical passages which
claim her virginity.....with which you are already familiar.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
