Hymen has nothing to do with it. She
never had sexual intercourse until after Jesus was born; hence His brothers and
sisters. izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taylor
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005
8:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The
HEART of the matter
C. Perry writes > Bill, what
constitutes a loss of virginity, "knowing" a man, or having
a baby? I surmise the former. (Since this is a one-time event, we certainly
have no precedence!)
I certainly agree with you concerning the lack of
precedence. Mary conceived without having "known" a man. She was a
virgin; something happened to her, which had never happened before.
My statement and belief has to do with a woman's
-- or, in the case of Mary, a girl's -- hymen. A girl with her hymen
intact is still a virgin, no if-ands-or-buts about it. Certainly, this is
what Mary had in mind when she questioned the possibility of her pregnancy: she
had not had any sexual relations; she was yet a virgin -- her hymen was still
intact; therefore, how could she be pregnant?
Joseph, having believed his visitor, took Mary to be
his wife, but he did not have sex with her while she was pregnant
("[He] knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn
son"); hence, Mary's hymen remained intact throughout the pregnancy. It
was the birth of Jesus which changed all that. This, too, is most certainly the
case (a case, as well, without precedence): In giving birth to Jesus,
Mary's hymen was torn -- her "veil" was ripped in two; hence she
was no longer a "virgin" in the technical sense of the word. True
enough, she had not yet had any sexual relations when she birthed Jesus;
nevertheless, she lost her virginity in the birthing process.
PS You are no doubt aware of the Roman
Catholic doctrine which sets forth the "perpetual virginity" of Mary,
that even after she gave birth to Jesus, she remained a virgin; i.e., her hymen
remained intact throughout her lifetime.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
> Bill, what constitutes a loss of virginity,
"knowing" a man, or having a
> baby? I surmise the former.
> (Since this is aone-time event, we certainly have no precedence!)
>
> Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know
> not a man?
>
> Matt 1:24-25: Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the
> Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she
> had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
>
> Perry
>
> >From: "Taylor"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
>
>To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
> >Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 07:07:03 -0600
> >
> >After the birth of Christ, Mary was still a
virgin. Surely we all
> >believe this !!
> >
> >I don't. After his conception, Mary was still a virgin.
After his birth,
> >... well, think about it.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To: [email protected]
>
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 8:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
> >
> >
> > The answers DH has given in this post should end the
matters under
> >discussion. I would agree, that after whatever happened to
Mary to bring
> >the fetus that would be God/man into existencem the development and
birth
> >of that infant was quite natural.
> >
> > If DH believes more than what he said, well, he didn't
say it in this
> >post. What as been written, is clear enough.
> >
> > After the birth of Christ, Mary was still a
virgin. Surely we all
> >believe this !!
> >
> > Church leaders often speak from their personal
convictions.
> >
> > 7 ft Quakers is a part of this discussion because
> >....................................? I would say
that whatever the
> >reason, DH is not a co-believer in the Quaker theory.
> >
> > How can anyone believe in 7 Quakers? For the
same reason one might
> >believe that King James was the first Evangelical or that the KJV is
> >inspired AS A TRANSLATION or that the Law is still in full effect as
an
> >attachment to our salvation or
....................................well ,
> >you get the point, no?
> >
> > In debate, one does not need to disprove something that
has not been
> >evidenced. And, certainly, not to one's
"satisfaction." One of the
> >greatest rock n roll bands of all time sings "can't get no
satisfaction."
> > And that seems to be the path taken in the Dean-o
,,.......... DH
> >discussion.
> >
> > JD
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected]
>
> Sent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:05:27 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
> >
> >
> > cd 10/20: Then-pray tell me- What does the term
Natural/Trational
> >Conception mean Dave? And how can one whom produces Naturally/Tradionaly
> >still be a virgin?
> >
> > DAVEH: I explained what it means to me in a
post yesterday, Dean. But
> >I will briefly explain it again to make sure you understand it.
> >
> > To me, natural is the process
whereby genetic coding is used to
> >define a person. I believe Jesus is literally the Son of both
God and Mary
> >due to his genes and/or DNA being related to their genes or DNA.....if
that
> >is the proper way to describe it. (I never was much good at
biology.)
> >
> > You then said.......
> >
> > You are saying that the "HG" had a natural
sexually act with Mary that
> >conceived Jesus.
> >
> > .........No, that is not what I am saying. While I
do believe the
> >power of the Holy Ghost was an important factor in the conception of
Jesus,
> >I do not believe that the HG conceived Jesus. To repeat.....I do
not
> >believe God (nor the HG) had physical sex with Mary, and I do believe
she
> >remained a virgin at the time of the birth of Jesus. Yet I do believe
> >there is a genetic link between our Father and Heaven and
Jesus.....making
> >him literally the Son of God. Does that make sense to you,
Dean?
> >
> > Now....regarding your
comment.........
> >
> > .And how can anyone with a reasonable mind believe a
person who claims t
> >here are 7 ft Quakers on the moon
> >
> > .........I do not recall discussing that. You've
been tossing that
> >claim out on TT recently as if it is something I should know about,
but I
> >don't. I googled it and didn't come up with anything
either. So help me
> >out, Brother Dean....please explain what you think I should know about
it.
> >
> > Now Dean, the ball is in your
court, as JD would say..........
> >
> > Now -pray tell how am I wrong-show me to my
satisfaction-and I will beg
> >forgiveness of making this claim against your theology.
> >
> > ........I hope my above explanation helps you understand
why I think the
> >things you've been saying about my beliefs are misleading and not
true. If
> >you continue to have any questions about what I believe or why I
believe
> >such, just ask. I'll gladly answer your sincere questions.
> >
> > Dean Moore wrote:
> >
> >
> > .........I did not see it. What I did
see were comments by leaders
> >that said to the effect that the conception of Mary was a natural
process.
> >To me, and other LDS folks I know, that means that the traditional
> >conception of Mary by some magical snapping of the fingers by the HG
(or
> >some such mystical way of conceiving) is incorrect.
Furthermore, the
> >leaders making comments regarding this that I've seen were often times
> >surmising their own beliefs (which are highly respected by other
Mormons,
> >but not necessarily considered doctrinal by official standards),
rather
> >than quoting LDS doctrine which is found in the Standard Works.
> >
> > So Perry....dig
out the quote that Kevin made saying........
> >
> > sex between God and Mary was physical
> >
> > ..........and then you will have a point that
bears merit. IF you
> >cannot do that, then you or anybody e lse saying that is what I
believe is
> >simply lying.< BR>
> > BTW.........As I have
previously explained several times on TT,
> >not only do I not believe that (sex between God and Mary was
physical), but
> >official LDS theology teaches that Mary was a virgin, which is hardly
> >possible IF the sex between God and Mary was physical. So, for
> >anti-Mormons to continue to perpetuate that lie stretches the limits of
> >incredibility.
> >
> >
> > For you to warn TTers from
getting confused by anything I
> >say.....seems to me that the blind are leading the blind, so to
speak.. If
> >you really want to exercise *Damage control* Dean, perhaps you should
first
> >consider correcting your own errors, lest you deceive them with
outright
> >lies. Otherwise, the *Damage *will be to your own
credibility.
> >
> >
> > cd 10/20: Then-pray tell me- What does the
term Natural/Trational
> >Conception mean Dave? And how can one whom produces
Naturally/Tradionaly
> >still be a virgin?And what does Luke 12:10 mean when it says" And
everybody
> >wh o speaks a word against the son of man, it will be forgivi ng him,
but
> >he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit,it will not be forgiving him
> >(ASV).And how can anyone with a reasonable mind believe a person who
claims
> >there are 7 ft Quakers on the moon and ignore this warning- given by
Jesus
> >himself- to help us not commit this sin of speaking against the Holy
Ghost
> >-as doing the wrong of having sex with someone they are not married to
> >(ie.fornication)-to our own hurt.You are saying that the
"HG" had a natural
> >sexually act with Mary that conce ived Jesus. Now -pray tell how am I
> >wrong-show me to my satisfaction-and I will beg forgiveness of making
this
> >claim against your theology.
> >
> >
> >--
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >Dave Hansen
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://www.langlitz.com
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >If you wish to receive
> >things I find interesting,
> >I maintain six email lists...
> >JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
> >STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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