Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. I'm rested up and ready to give this a shot. Comments in bold.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 03:02:56 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah & Jewish traditions
I can't read this without laughing, David. I'm going to bed.
Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 17:09:09 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah & Jewish traditions
JD wrote:
> Also, please note that the author gives as his primary
> meaning of the two Grk words, telos and telous, with
> this definition -- "An end, term, termination, completion.
> Particularly only in respect to time." I do not see that as
> being so very different from the definition of Thayer.
I don't either, but this is only one definition. He explains further that its usage is not limited to this. So does Thayer.
> Also, please note that the author gives as his primary
> meaning of the two Grk words, telos and telous, with
> this definition -- "An end, term, termination, completion.
> Particularly only in respect to time." I do not see that as
> being so very different from the definition of Thayer.
I don't either, but this is only one definition. He explains further that its usage is not limited to this. So does Thayer.
Neither give definitions that conflict with the primary usage. Each presents a collection of nuances that continue under the shadow of the general use. Just as the finish line is the goal of a race, so is the law's purpose fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Acts 15 is evidence that God in Christ never intended the Law of Moses to extend beyond the Jewish population - and I will say the Jewish population of the First Church. You and I and Terry are Gentiles as named in Acts 15. the law does not apply to us. We have the Spirit and those who are led by the Spirit are not under law. The decisions made in Acts 15 were cultural decision, IMO, and have little to do with me, today, except in the example of how the First Church decided to solve this problem.
JD wrote:
> "Goal" is omitted - because, at this point in his discussion,
> he is only concerned for the primary usage of the word(s).
> His comments at VII fall along the lines of what I am saying.
> Zodhiates does not separate "termination" from "goal" when
> referencing Romans 10:4. You have quoted something that
> seems to confirm my conclusion.
I realize this, which is why I had said that my only point was to address your use of "only." Zodhiates, like many Greek scholars, let's his theological views taint his explanations.
This is the part where I started laughing, last night. It's still a little humorous. A suggestion or two: in the future, when I use words that imply exclusivity (?), just ask me why I did so !!!! Then I could explain, in this case for example, that I did so because I was quoting an authority who had made his definition of such a nature. Secondly, I personally think it is poor exegetical practice to present a nuance as an opposing definition. There may be times when this is FORCED upon the student, but "telos" gives no such opportunity. Just as the race is over when one reaches the finish line, so has the Law of Moses come to an end with the fulfillment that is Christ. Christ is truly the end of the law for righteousness (and what other reason remains???) to those who believe.
JD wrote:
> If DM agrees with the wording of VII, perhaps we
> are not talking about the same things in our discussions.
> It 's happened many times before !!
I don't think his wording of VII is helpful for this discussion, but his treatment ought to cause you to drop the word "only" from what you had said before. I consider Zodhiates a possible reading of Rom. 10:4, but not the final word on the matter. It was your "final word" presentation using the word "only" that I was objecting to.
What is humorous is that you use Zodhiates to defeat Zodhiates.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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