Re: [TruthTalk] Christ and the Law

[Judy Taylor]

 

 

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:39:27 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

jt: Why do you always ignore the main point JD which is being under the Law of Christ.  You are very vocal

about the Mosaic Law but seem always to avoid the latter.  I guess you must be "antinomian" after all.

 

The law of Christ is also   known as the   law of faith,'  the law of love and the law of the Spirit  --  in NT scripture.  

 

Yes

 

It is an inwardness that is completely different in essence from the Law of Moses as per Jeremiah 31:31-34 and related passages.  

 

How do you figure the above, I mean where do you get that from?  Are you saying God has two sets of laws, one for old covenant ppl and another for new covenant ppl?  I challenge you to compare them, check the sermon on the Mount with the 10 Commandments and tell me about the conflicts and contradictions.

 

As you use the word "law,"  the new covenant is a law at all.   Christ is the end of the law.   He fulfilled The Law.  And, if we are led by the Holy Spirit of God in Christ, we are no longer under law

 

We are under it when we are not actively fulfilling it through Christ JD.  Continue on as a transgressor and see how fast it judges you.  This is called playing with fire...

 

JD writes:

 

The promise of "inspiration" applies to scripture  --   not translations of scripture.  

 

Then from your perspective JD we have lost the Word of God for all intents and purposes because all we have in our generation are "translations" without any promise and with no inspiration.  How terribly sad!!

 

Nothing "sad" about the facts of the situation.  By the way,  you attend a church in which you will  find no one on the pastoral staff who agrees with you on this.   So let's keep this in context.  

 

How do you JD, presume to know what everyone on the "pastoral staff" at the church I attend believes? 

 

BSF will not offer any real support on this issue, as well.   And you will never have anything but personal opinion as support for what you are saying, here. 

 

I have the Word of God and I have the teaching of the Holy Spirit which is far superior to that of mere men. 

 

If the translations are inspired, then (a) there is no need for the thousands of MSS that have been preserved down through the ages and  (b)  the translators themselves are/were     inspired.  

 

No need for the millions of Bibles printed annually either, let's just keep one and chain it to Headquarters. 

 

You can use JudyLogic all you want.   You take Ps 12 completely out of context and try to make it apply to English translation   --  or is it the KJV only.    The fact is this:  you presume to know how this preservation was accomplished.  

 

Exactly where do I detail HOW this is accomplished by God JD?  Just one more baseless accusation.

 

"How" in my statement does not refer to "mechanics."   I put Ps 13 back into context.  You ignored this. 

 

It is Psalm 12 and you didn't put anything into context JD, you confused the clear Word of truth.

 

The "words" that are preserved are the one's spoken by the Lord in v 5 of Ps 12  !!!   The psalmist is not talking about the "bible"     ---   he is talking about the word that will establish the afflicted and the needy.                         &n bsp; 

 

Looks to me (on the basis of the above) that you are the one who details how God can not or will not do what He says He will do.  Psalm 12 is a Psalm of David  and yes, God takes care of the poor and needy - He is also well able to preserve His Word in every generation with or without anyone's permission.

 

So, we agree ??  !!

 

Not exactly ...

 

 Jeremiah 51:63

Judy  -- stop with this proof-texting  !!!    This is not about the "originals."   It is about a prophecy against Babylon.   The sinking of the scroll of oracles was a visual lesson to that city of what lay ahead.  

 

So was the whole nation of Babylon watching so that they could receive the "visual lesson?" and did they put away their pagan dieties for a time to listen to the record of the captive Jewish prophet?  Who is "proof texting?" and why this "straw man term" that you whip out whenever you don't like the direction JD. I understand that some things are hard to swallow and don't deny the subject of the prophecy but neither can you deny the fact that the prophet was instructed to weigh the original written record  with a rock and throw it into the Euphrates and yet it remains in the scriptural record anyway ... So where is the beef?

 

One thing for sure, Judy  ..   you do a better job at making us think you are "bible based" when, in point of fact,  you seldom even bother with scripture  --  except when you are proof-texting.  This is a case in point.   You begin with a a logical impossibly [from your perspective] by saying "So was the whole nation of Babylon watching   .........?"  and away you go from there.   By the same "logic,"  Seraiah did not prophecy against Babylon.    Nonsense !!!    

 

Don't put words in my mouth JD. You need to read my comment above once more before making such a ridiculous claim.

 

What you obviously have pictured here, is the finality of the prophecy.   It is Seraiah [following Jeremiah's instructions] who makes the visual lesson a part of the prophecy.................. as the scroll sinks into the Euphrates he was to say  "....so shall Babylon sink down and not rise again" 

 

Right, and ATST it is a visual lesson as to God's concern for original transcripts - which hardly mirrors that of men. So long as the Holy Spirit is around to fulfill Luke 12:12 - No worries....

 

Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" That is a very, very powerful God, but if God says, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" (Matt 24:35) - what great care and power he must extend to those words.

 

And His word   does   continues.    

 

Hmmm ... With permission and only the parts that have your approval JD; which are the ones that fit into your peculiar doctrinal mould and agree with your favorite men of the cloth.  Do you tremble at His Word JD? or do you try to temper parts you consider to be hard because God is so loving after all??

 

Nothing in the above has any substantive influence on this thread.   We are not discussing  me and I am not going to get caught up in that trap.   Do not make the mistake of believing that you cherish the Message and I do not.  Such would be untrue......Let's stick to the thread's original subject.  Wisdom begins with the fear of the Lord  ...... but perfect love [in time] casts out fear.   I no longer fear God in the sense that I frightened by Him.     

 

You err JD.  There are many different words that mean fear and thousands of phobias that have been named which are part of the fear that has torment.  Perfect love never casts out the fear of God - only the other kind of fear which has torment.

 

The Berean call was to "search the scriptures daily" not correct them.  When the bible refers to "scriptures" as it does here in Acts 17:11, the reference is to copies not original manuscripts.  Consider 2 Timothy 3:15, "From a child thou hast known the holy scriptures"  Neither he nor the Ethiopian eunuch, who also read "the scriptures" had the 800 year old originals of the book of Isaiah.  If "the word" is a Greek text only, then only the Greek speaking churches could "preach the word" (2 Tim 4:2) and only those fluent in Greek could be "born again by the word" Acts 2:6 says "Every man heard them speak in his own language" 

 

Perhaps a good , thorough going discussion about "inspiration" would be a good thing.  Does Acts 2:9 have anything to do with "inspiration" as we are discussing the issue  ..   exactly what are we discussing,  Judy?   I can list perhaps five or six different subjects brought into this discussion, at this point.  

 

Maybe we each have our own discussion going on here :)  What I am saying is that the Holy Spirit is well able today to do what He did in Acts 2:9 and yes I believe Peter's words were both inspired and anointed. Look at the fruit they bore.

 

Jewish copies of their scriptures were generated with a very different mind-set concerning MSS reproduction than the New and Gentile church. How does that play in our discussion?  

 

The Jews had enough fear of God to be very concerned over accuracy, apart from that their mindset makes no

difference, God used them to preserve His Words in spite of it. 

 

ACts 2:6  --  does that picture a similar process as we study  or casually read the modern day biblical message?   How are the terms "revelation" and "inspiration" different?   How are they related?  Should we toss the ancient MSS and give our books away?  &nbs p; Or , maybe, "we should just hand over the books that G, JD Lance and Bill use? 

 

I have no idea what books they are using or what they are doing with them. 

 

Your theory tells us that the greek text is the only thing  NOT included in God's promise to preserve His "word."   Silliness.  

 

What you call "my theory" does not distinguish Greek from any other language (see Acts 2:6).  God the Spirit was able to translate Peter's words on the day of Pentecost to those of every nation present at the temple on that day; believers also received the promise that He would bring to their remembrance what they should say in response to their accusers.  So has something changed since then?

 

Ah, yes.    But what did happen on Pentecost Day?    The miracle had to do with hearing the sermon in languages and dialects present on that day.  That's it.   You apparently disagree. 

 

Well I don't see that only Greek was involved since there were ppl who were Parthians, Medes, Elamites, some from Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, Jews & proselytes, Cretans and Arabs.

 

Is God in the business of deceiving housewives who do not have access to a library of Greek reference books? 1 Cor 6:4 reminds us to "set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church"  We can have confidence that "every word" in the KJ Bible is the pure word of God." 

 

God used the unlearned  --  not the ignorant or stupid !!!  

 

Ignorance is a form of knowledge JD.  Being well educated does not protect one from pride, ignorance, stubbornness, or stupidity. 

 

Paul is the guy who wrote this passage you misapply. Was he ignorant, unlearned? 

 

Yes, by his own admission before God humbled him in knocking him off his donkey and then sending him off to the desert to be reeducated. 

 

The statement Paul makes contrasts the first century Christian culture with the prevailing Roman/Jewish culture of the day.  You were regarded as unwise and unlearned if YOU WERE A CHRISTIAN.  

 

The above is the pronouncement of the truly ignorant and I dare say would be the same today.  Look at the disdain in the Scientific community toward intelligent design and yet they are all hanging on the theories of a dead man. On this

I agree with Pat Robertson - when the day of trouble comes they will have to ask Darwin - how so?

 

It is in this context that Paul writes.   He includes himself in this statement .... as he was as educated as anyone he confronted !!!!! 

 

And he counted it all dung in comparison to the knowledge of Christ.  He was not using word games, when he persecuted the church he did do it in ignorance.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                         judyt                                       
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
                              is a liar (1 John 2:4)