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Hi David, thank you for your response.
I am not an expert on Servetus and did not live in
Geneva so like you I am depending on written accounts by others -
and
it appears as though there are other opinions about the
situation in Geneva. In Dave Hunt's book "What Love is This?" P.63 he
writes:
"Calvin's defenders turn a blind eye to the facts when
they attempt to exonerate him by blaming events in Geneva on the civil
authorities. In the face of so much evidence to the contrary. Boettner
even insists that "Calvin was the first of the Reformers to demand complete
separation between Church and State." In fact, Calvin not only established
ecclesiastical law but he codified the civil legislation. He held the
civil authorities responsible to "foster and maintain the external worship of
God, to defend sound doctrine and condition of the church" and to see that "no
idolatry, no blasphemy against God's name, no calumnies against his truth, nor
other offenses to religion break out and be disseminated among the people ...
(but) to prevent the true religion ... from being with impunity openly violated
and polluted by public blasphemy"
Calvin used the civil arm to impose his peculiar
doctrines upon the citizens of Geneva and to enforce them. Zweig, who pored over
the official records of the City Council for Calvin's day tells us "There is
hardly a day, in the records of the settings of the Town Council in which we do
not find the remark "Better consult Master Calvin about this" Pike reminds
us that Calvin was given a "consultant's chair" in every meeting of the city
authorities and "when he was sick the authorities would come to his house for
their sessions" Rather than diminishing with time, Calvin's power only
grew. John McNeil, a Calvinist, admits that "in Calvin's latter years, and
under his influence the laws of Geneva became more detailed and more
stringent"
Servetus may have been a rank heretic - but where there
is life there is hope of repentance. His life was taken from him.
judyt
Judy, elders and bishops are the same thing in Scripture. The
passage that Bill quotes is "bishop" in the KJV. I thought that was the
version of your Bible.
You still don't get the situation in Geneva. John Calvin was
brought to Geneva to help them organize a "reformed" church. Calvin
outlined an organization with Doctors, Pastors, Deacons, and Elders. The
powers went only as far as excommunication. This was the only power that
Calvin had, and when he exercised it once to the chagrin of the city council,
he himself was banished from Geneva for 3 years, until a new city council had
invited him back. In regards to Servetus, Calvin had NO POWER or
AUTHORITY to put him to death, as mandated by his own outline of powers of the
church. His involvement was by exhorting the city council to do
something about this man, and then by making the case for how Servetus had
blasphemed the name of God. So your question of, "how would it have been
possible for one of these men living in Geneva to reign in John Calvin," has
already been answered. All they had to do was say to Calvin, "no."
That's it. In fact, Servetus had made the case that Calvin should be the
one on trial and he sought to have Calvin put to death and all his belongings
given to Servetus. The council took no action on his exhortation.
What would history have been like if they had accepted Servetus's arguments
instead of Calvin's? Think about it.
I'm off to meeting with the saints now. God bless.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:00
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 'Calvin's
beliefs are of Satan-He was an evil man' says Dean Moore
Are you reading from the Latin Vulgate Bill?
My Bible calls them "elders" - yes they are to be "examples" to
the flock but Jesus is head of the Church and they
are at best undershepherds. How would it have been
possible for one of these men living in Geneva to
reign in John Calvin?
cd writes: Better read Titus 1:9-13
jt writes: Where in scripture does one find a
"Bishop-led" Church?
Titus 1.7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of
God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not
given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men,
sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath
been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to
convince the gainsayers. 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and
deceivers, specially they of the circumcision . . .
judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
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