From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:44:40 -0800
http://answers.org/theology/add_to_scripture.html
*DAVEH: Is the guy who wrote this serious? And...do you subscribe to
his logic, Perry? Rom 15:........
/[19] Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God;
so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, *I have fully
preached the gospel of Christ*./
........That comment alone should cause one to wonder what Paul preached
that was left out of the Bible. Or....do you believe everything Paul
preached was included in the Bible?
If Paul says he fully preached the gospel of Christ...then I believe he
fully preached the gospel of Christ. What is your point? Is it that you know
Paul preached something that is not in the Bible?
I am missing your point, Dave...can you be a bit more explicit?
Perry
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave,
I am going to pull a "G" here and augment my own post...
Below is a reference to a page that begins to discuss some of the tests
of canonicity. For a fuller discussion I recommend "A General Introduction
to the Bible" by Norman Geisler and William Nix.
*
http://answers.org/theology/add_to_scripture.html *
Perry
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:34:43 -0800
Dave,
Adding to the word is very dangerous business. If one is to believe
Jude 3, and Hebrews 1-2, then one would logically assume that scripture
is complete. The operative point in our discussion is not that Christians
would or would not welcome new revelation...I beleive that most would if
it could be demonstrated to be scripture... it is that we believe no new
scripture HAS been revealed. But, as Jesus said on the cross..."it is
finished". His atoning work was complete. No more needs to be done, or
said to complete or augment the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is finished.
As for Revelation 22, I believe that is an admonition from the writer
of Revelation not to change Revelation. However, I also beleive that the
principle applies to all of scripture. If indeed Jude 3 and Hebrews 1-2
are true, there would be no gain (biblically...although perhaps
personally) from adding to it.
There are a series of objective tests that books of the Bible had to
meet before they were considered scripture ("canonical"), and against
which new "scripture" is judged. There were many other books that,
although considered by some early christian groups to be scripture, did
not meet these criteria. When the mormon extra-biblical works are put to
these tests, they fail miserably. That is why we must take heed to take 2
Cor 11:3,4; Gal 1:6-9 to heart. The mormon works are heretical.
As for your perception of Christians as "myopic", I differ. First of
all, we are totally in accord with scripture. We start with the biblical
fact that "itis finished". We assume that Hebrews 1:1-2 is correct, in
that in these last days God spoke to us through his Son. We believe Jude
3 when it says that the faith was delivered once for all to the saints.
We are applying objective tests to purported "new" scripture. We are
being good Bereans and searching the scriptures daily to see if what
latter day "prophets" are saying is true. We are "testing the spirits" of
newly revealed "scripture", including mormonism, and finding that it
fails the tests of "canonicity". My guess is that no one in the mormon
theocracy has ever honestly applied these tests to scripture and
truthfully reported their findings. How honest a scholar are you Dave?
Are you the man to do it?
Finally, I would not rely on Google for uncovering the truth about
anything. Especially if my expectations of it's ability were too high,
and my search techniques were lacking.
Perry
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:53:47 -0800
* It is not additional revelation that we object to, per se, and many
(if not most) Christians feel that if it is in God's will, additional
revelation would be welcome.*
DAVEH: That isn't the way I've understood most Protestants to believe.
If so, then why is there such a reluctance to /add to the Word/, so to
speak? When I've addressed the need for current revelation on TT in the
past, some TTers have used Rev 22.......
/[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the
prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall
add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:/
.........as their (faulty) logic in dismissing the option of God
revealing more Scripture. And, I've heard that from more than just one
single TTer. It is a common argument that is used by many
Protestants......and as such, it would suggest that your above comment
about........
*additional revelation would be welcome
...........* is not correct. Can you give me some examples of
Protestants making such a claim anywhere on the net? That is such a
simple and concise statement, one would think it would be easy to google
it and turn up a lot of examples of Protestants saying exactly the same
thing with exactly the same words. Yet this is what I got when I tried
it.......
_/Your search - "additional revelation would be welcome" - did not match
any documents./_
........Which to me would seem very strange if it was a commonly
believed desire of Protestants.
* Many of us believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is complete.*
DAVEH: Which is why I think you are myopic on this, Perry. Are there
ANY Protestants who think otherwise? Doesn't believing in that manner
suggest that you would not welcome any *additional revelation*_//_, as
it would imply that your basic premise is flawed? How can you consider
the *gospel of Jesus Christ* to be complete, and then welcome
*additional revelation*? I can only assume that the *_many_* you
mentioned below does not include you?
*Should God choose to reveal more scripture it would be welcome*
DAVEH: As I see it, Protestantism would not be receptive to it at
all........especially, if such revelations were to point out the errors
promulgated by Protestant theology. I would be most interested in
seeing you find stuff on the net to support your above claim. I suspect
you are merely saying such to pacify my belief that Protestantism does
not readily welcome more revelation from God. If there are *_many_ *
Protestants who believe as you suggested....it should be easy for you to
provide evidence, Perry. Otherwise, I can only assume you are grinding
your ax against Mormonism.
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave,
* It is not additional revelation that we object to, per se, and
_many_ (if not most) Christians feel that if it is in God's will,
additional revelation would be welcome.* And to many, additional
personal revelation is accepted.
* Many of us believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is complete.*
That the faith was delivered once for all to the saints (Jude 3). No
more is necessary, and what we have is sufficient for understanding
God's will for mankind, and attaining salvation. *Should God choose to
reveal more scripture it would be welcome*...but, to date, no works
fulfill that goal.
We have been warned in scripture that if anyone preaches a different
gospel than the Apostles taught, they are accursed. (2 Cor 11:3,4; Gal
1:6-9)
It is the heretical, contradictory, and unbiblical nature of the
mormon extra-biblical works, the nefarious background of JS, the lies
and deceit of the mormon church that we object to. These prevent real
Christians from accepting the mormon works as revelation, or as
"another testament of Jesus Christ". This all points to one thing...the
mormon system is not of God. THAT is what we object to. It is a FALSE
religion.
Perry
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:04:34 -0800
*It is perhaps perplexing to them why you would so adamantly argue
that the Scriptures have been closed.*
DAVEH: Yes DavidM, that is correct.....Such does perplex us. I'm
suspect there may be other reasons as well, but it almost seems that
the argument for closure is just a knee jerk reaction because of JS's
contribution of post Biblical revelations. From our perspective, it
appears that Protestants have truly put the blinders on in an effort
to avoid hearing anything God might want them to know that is not
included in the Bible.
Apparently, the only thing that is going to be accepted in a post
Biblical sense, will be Jesus.....and that only after he shows the
nail prints in his hands.
If God felt the need to reveal his will through the apostles and
prophets of Bible times, it truly does seem strange to us (LDS) that
many Christians in this era would reject the idea that God could/would
do the same today. To think that God revealed everything we need to
know several thousand years ago, and that it has been 100% recorded in
what we know as the Bible.....seems a bit more than myopic.....it
might even be insulting to a Lord whose methods are claimed not to
change.
/*It appears that such dogma comes out of convenience rather than
conviction.*/
DAVEH: To me, it seems more a matter of stubbornness, rather than
convenience. To allow God to reveal more than he has currently
revealed would simply upset the applecart, so to speak. Protestantism
has invested heavily in both time and effort building a framework of
theology that stands apart from Catholicism, and has adopted a no
change policy that would prevent anybody from making waves.
IOW.....Why would they (Protestants) want to take a chance on finding
out that some of their basic premises are wrong! It is much easier to
assume correctness of theology, and refuse to hear anything that might
be contrary. Hence, they stubbornly reject anything God might reveal
outside the Bible.
David Miller wrote:
As for the Scritpures being closed.... I have expressed in this forum
many times in the past that my perspective is that I do not expect
more Scriptures to be forthcoming. Nevertheless, there is no mandate
or decree that closes the Canon. It is only an assumption we have
that there will not be any more Scriptures written until Christ
himself returns. I suspect those just before Christ came the first
time thought the same thing. Nevertheless, Christ did come, and soon
more Scriptures were written. The only reason such a point is
necessary is honesty in approaching the subject. I'm sure to the
Mormons, who believe that other Scriptures have been written, you
appear unable to think outside your little theological box. *It is
perhaps perplexing to them why you would so adamantly argue that the
Scriptures have been closed.* /*It appears that such dogma comes out
of convenience rather than conviction.*/
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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