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Let us await Judy's response on this. 'Doctrines of
Men'? All you already aware of alternate readings of these passages? Are
you also aware that your reading of both of these is a minority
reading?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: January 07, 2006 11:49
Subject: Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk]
Catholics and Idols (to Dean)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 1/7/2006 11:04:55 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk]
Catholics and Idols (to Dean)
My question, Dean, is where is the RAPTURE in
the Bible? My question, Dean, is where is sinless perfection in the
Bible...and on
1Th 4:17 -
Albert Barnes:
Then we which are alive - Those who shall then be alive; see
1Th_4:15. The
word here rendered "then" (e?´pe?ta epeita), does not
necessarily mean that this would occur immediately. It properly marks
succession in time, and means "afterward, next, next in the order of
events;" Luk_16:7; Gal_1:21; Jam_4:14. There may be a considerable interval between the resurrection of
the pious and the time when the living shall be caught up to meet the Lord,
for the change is to take place in them which will fit them to ascend with
those who have been raised. The meaning is, that after the dead are raised,
or the next thing in order, they and the living will ascend to meet the
Lord. The proper meaning of the word, however, denotes a succession so close
as to exclude the idea of a long interval in which other important
transactions would occur, such an interval, for example, as would be
involved in a long personal reign of the Redeemer on earth. The word demands
this interpretation - that the next thing in order after the resurrection of
the righteous, will be their being caught up with the living, with an
appropriate change, into the air - though, as has been remarked, it will
admit of the supposition of such a brief, momentary interval e?? a?´t?µ?? e?? ???p?
??f?a?µ?? en atomos en rhipe¯ ophthalmou, 1Co_15:51-52) as shall be
necessary to prepare for it.
Shall be caught up - The word here used implies that there will be
the application of external force or power by which this will be done. It
will not be by any power of ascending which they will themselves have; or by
any tendency of their raised or changed bodies to ascend of their own
accord, or even by any effort of their own will, but by a power applied to
them which will cause them to rise. Compare the use of the word a??pa´?? harpazo¯ in Mat_11:12, "the violent take it by force;" Mat_13:19, "then cometh the wicked one and
snatcheth away;" Joh_6:15, "that they would come and take him
by force; Joh_10:12, "the wolf catcheth them;" Act_8:39, "the Spirit of the Lord caught away
Philip; 2Co_12:2, "such an one caught up to the third heaven;" also, Joh_12:28-29; Act_23:10; Jud_1:23; Rev_12:5. The verb does not
elsewhere occur in the New Testament In all these instances there is the
idea of either foreign force or violence effecting that which is done. What
force or power is to be applied in causing the living and the dead to
ascend, is not expressed. Whether it is to be by the ministry of angels, or
by the direct power of the Son of God, is not intimated, though the latter
seems to be most probable. The word should not be construed, however. as
implying that there will be any reluctance on the part of the s aints to
appear before the Saviour, but merely with reference to the physical fact
that power will be necessary to elevate them to meet him in the air. Will
their, bodies then be such that they will have the power of locomotion at
will from place to place?
In the clouds - Greek, "in clouds" - e?? ?efe´?a?? en
nephelais - without the article. This may mean "in
clouds;" that is, in such numbers, and in such grouping as to resemble
clouds. So it is rendered by Macknight, Koppe, Rosenmuller, Bush
(Anasta. 266), and others. The absence of the article here would
rather seem to demand this interpretation Still, however, the other
interpretation may be true, that it means that they will be caught up into
the region of the clouds, or to the clouds which shall accompany the Lord
Jesus on his return to our world. Mat_24:30; Mat_26:64; Mar_16:19; Mar_14:62; R ev_1:7; compare Dan_7:13. In whichever sense it
is understood, the _expression_ is one of great sublimity, and the scene will
be immensely grand. Some doctrine of this kind was held by the ancient Jews.
Thus rabbi Nathan (Midras Tillin, 48:13) says, "What has been done before
will be done again. As he led the Israelites from Egypt in the clouds of
heaven, so will he do to them in the future time."
To meet the Lord in the air - In the regions of the atmosphere -
above the earth. It would seem from this, that the Lord Jesus, in his
coming, would not descend to the earth, but would remain at a distance from
it in the air, where the great transactions of the judgment will occur. It
is, indeed, nowhere said that the transactions of the judgment will occur
upon the earth. The world would not be spacious enough to contain all the
assembled living and dead, and hence the throne of judgment will be fixed in
the ample space above it.
And so shall we ever be with the Lord - This does not mean that they
will always remain with him in the air - for their final home will be heaven
- and after the trial they will accompany him to the realms of glory;
Mat_25:34,
"Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom," etc. The time during
which they will remain with him "in the air" is nowhere mentioned in the
Bible. It will be as long as will be necessary for the purposes of judging a
world and deciding the eternal doom of every individual "according to the
deeds done in the body." There is no reason to suppose that this will be
accomplished in a single day of twenty-four hours; but it is impossible to
form and conjecture of the period which will be
occupied.
.
Sinlessness-1 JN 3:8,9 Whsoever is born
of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.
Adam Clark:
1Jo 3:8 - He that committeth sin is
of the devil - Hear this, also, ye who plead for Baal, and cannot
bear the thought of that doctrine that states believers are to be saved from
all sin in this life! He who committeth sin is a child of the devil, and
shows that he has still the nature of the devil in him; for the devil
sinneth from the beginning - he was the father of sin, brought sin into the
world, and maintains sin in the world by living in the hearts of his own
children, and thus leading them to transgression; and persuading others that
they cannot be saved from their sins in this life, that he may secure a
continual residence in their heart. He knows that if he has a place there
throughout life, he will probably have it at death; and, if so, throughout
eternity.For this purpose - ??? t??t?? For this very end - with this very design, was Jesus manifested in
the flesh, that he migh t destroy, ???a ??s??, that he might loose,
the bonds of sin, and dissolve the power, influence, and connection of sin.
See on 1Jo_3:3
(note).
J. Wesley:
1Jo 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God - By living faith, whereby God is
continually breathing spiritual life into his soul, and his soul is
continually breathing out love and prayer to God, doth not commit sin. For
the divine seed of loving faith abideth in him; and, so long as it doth, he
cannot sin, because he is born of God - Is inwardly and universally
changed.
1Jo 3:9 -
Adam Clark:
Whosoever is born of God - Ge?e???µe???, Begotten of God, doth
not commit sin: "that is," say some, "as he used to do, he does not sin
habitually as he formerly did." This is bringing the influence and
privileges of the heavenly birth very low indeed. We have the most
indubitable evidence that many of the heathen philosophers had acquired, by
mental discipline and cultivation, an entire ascendency over all their
wonted vicious habits. Perhaps my reader will recollect the story of the
physiognomist, who, coming into the place where Socrates was delivering a
lecture, his pupils, wishing to put the principles of the mans science to
proof, desired him to examine the face of their master, and say what his
moral character was. After a full contemplation of the philosophers visage,
he pronounced him "the most gluttonous, drunken, brutal, and libidinous old
man that he had ever met." As the character of Socrates was the reverse of
all this, his disci ples began to insult the physiognomist. Socrates
interfered, and said, "The principles of his science may he very correct,
for such I was, but I have conquered it by my philosophy." O ye Christian
divines! ye real or pretended Gospel ministers! will ye allow the influence
of the grace of Christ a sway not even so extensive as that of the
philosophy of a heathen who never heard of the true
God?
...and on
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