Could you make a line-item response, similar to what David does. For me to respond to you, specifically, and have you write something that is not responsive allows for endless debate.
"Sinful nature" is not "sinning nature." I have a human nature that is given to sin. I can refuse to so act - but given enough time, I will commit sin. I and you - respond to our human nature in the same way as Adam. Christ chose not to sin.
His life makes us all liars when we say that we cannot act righteously.
You say that God does not ask us to do what we cannot do. Well, he asked the Jews to live the law long before He gave a personal indwelling ....... proving that we can live the law without the Spirit's indwelling ---- according to your reasoning. Perhaps the Spirit's Indwelling accomplishes other purposes if we, in fact, can live a righteous life without it? Wow !!
For me, "cannot" and "will not" have the same conclusion in my life. The only difference, as I see it, is that the first consideration makes God guilty (creating me with no chance at doing what He commanded), the second reveals my own complicity. And, as if there were any question, Jesus assumes my nature and does what I might argue "cannot be done," making me a liar and deserving of sin.
I have long believed that Christ's life and oral ministry left me deserving of death and without excuse. His death on the cross took that condemnation away.
jd
----- Original Message -----Sent: 1/31/2006 9:57:58 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of theIn the KJ , the translation is "in all things" which is the same, OF COURSE, as "in all respects." I do not use the KJ in my studies.Christ did what no other man had done - He lived that covenant partnership perfected with the same human nature you and Judy and Adolph Hitler have. When it suits your purposes, you and Judy often argue " he wouldn't ask us to do something we couldn't do" while over looking the fact that with the Old Law, God asked His people to live it perfectly !! Christ told the unborn again woman, "Go they way and sin no more." go refigure.Further, if you think I believe that you are sinless in your daily walk, right now, well, sorry but I do not believe that.There is only one kind of human flesh and Judy's constant misuse of I Cor 15 does not contradict that statement.jd-------------------------------------------cd: John consider it this way-How am I different from Christ as a born again believer-yet I have changed to a whole new man. How can Christ be the same as the old me and the same as the new me?Jesus and Hitler being the same-how you given this much thought??God told his people in the OT to keep the commandments-they failed in that they heeded the flash and wanted sin more. God would not have given laws to us that we were unable to keep.Even in the NT He gives us Laws and the Holy Spirit to help us keep those Laws. Christ himself did not come to do away with the law He came to fulfill the part of the law that require us to be cleaned up from our sins to sin no more and to be perfect even as He was perfect-Christ would also not have directed us to do something we are not able to do with God's help of the Holy Spirit.------------------------jd----- Original Message -----Sent: 1/30/2006 9:15:56 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?cd: I think I can if you would be so kind as to point out that passage for me Bill.jd wrote this text.....not Bill. The scritpure you asked for is in the paragraph.Secondly, we know that Christ was like us, in every respect. That is the declaration of scripture. You and Judy apparently enjoy camping on "Like" for the purpose of showing the rest of us that He is not like us !!! What is the point of Hebrews 2:14-18 if it is not that He is an effective minister to us because He knows what it is like to be human -- like us?? I do not think you can answer this question.------------------------cd: John where is the words" in every respect" in the below Hebrews 2:14-18? As a lost heathen I was a captive of Satan was Christ also a lost man held captive by Satan? There is a difference. Can you hear the answer I am giving to your question?Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;Heb 2:15
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.Heb 2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.Heb 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.Heb 2:18
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted..-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----- Original Message -----Sent: 1/29/2006 10:22:12 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?Something else, Dean. It has occurred to me that you and Judy believe in two Adams , neither of which is Christ. You have Adam before the "fall" a totally different kind of being than the Adam after the falll. Such is nowhere discussed in scripture. If I asked for a scripture that speaks to the creaturely Adam as changed in terms of human nature and physical being, you couldn't do - so I will not ask. What bothers me is that that this failure does not bother you while, at the same time, preaching against "adding to or taking from the meaning (words) " of the revealation of God.Secondly, we know that Christ was like us, in every respect. That is the declaration of scripture. You and Judy apparently enjoy camping on "Like" for the purpose of showing the rest of us that He is not like us !!! What is the point of Hebrews 2:14-18 if it is not that He is an effective minister to us because He knows what it is like to be human -- like us?? I do not think you can answer this question.cd: I think I can if you would be so kind as to point out that passage for me Bill.-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If Jesus was not of the first Adam, he was not his descendant and, therefore, was not qualified to bear his name. You and yours are way to American in this regard: you have no respect for heritage, lineage, kinship, family ties. To know the Jesus of Scripture, you need know him as he was in his culture, Dean -- not yours.Bill----- Original Message -----From: Dean MooreSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 4:52 PMSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?----- Original Message -----From: Judy TaylorSent: 1/29/2006 6:18:57 PMSubject: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Amen!Now this is good doctrine. Thank you Dean, what a blessing you are in the Lord..cd: Thanks sister-you are a blessing to me also-The writing that you did concerning the second man Adam should convince anyone who doesn't hold a bias.The second man Adam clearly was different from the first man Adam.He was strong with sanctification whereas the first man Adam wasn't-We were of the first while Jesus was of the second-No higher Priesthood exists.From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
No, I think I will stay the course Bill. The Law mentioned was only weak
in our flesh not Christ's flesh-He came in the "likeness of that flesh" but
the law worked in Him who was not weak. This supports my view-disagree?Then here's another verse to help.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet
sinners, Christ died for us.
His death was the victory not His life.
> From: Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 1/29/2006 2:05:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
>
> Christ came in the lower state for death on the cross thereby defeating
> Satan-for victory-not to spend His life warring against sin in His
members-
> for victory.
>
> You might want to rethink that one, Dean:
>
> "For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God
> did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of
> sin: He condemned sin in the flesh" (Rom 8.3).cd:No, I think I will stay the course Bill. The Law mentioned was only weak
in our flesh not Christ's flesh-He came in the "likeness of that flesh" but
the law worked in Him who was not weak. This supports my view-disagree?
Then here's another verse to help.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet
sinners, Christ died for us.
His death was the victory not His life.
>----------
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