On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 08:47:05 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy wrote: Christ is not the literal seed of David's genitals Bill and by your insistance that he is you have far more scripture to explain away than I do. DM: Actually, Bill does not have to explain away any Scriptures at all. However, you have the problem of Acts 2:30. There are other passages as
well that would cause your understanding trouble. jt: I think he and you do David. The scriptures are not a biological treatise; they are about Jesus Christ from Genesis to Revelation and he only has a physical flesh and blood body for a very short time 3 1/2 years to be exact - He is the ONLY begotten of the father so how can you be so sure that you know about his genetics, genomes etc. If God wanted to make him one of a kind - why would this be a problem to you? Judy wrote: The reason the Messiah was to be born of the woman was because she is less responsible than Adam for the transgression. DM: This is not true. jt: Proof please? Upon what authority do you say that this is not true? Scripture tells us the woman was deceived ... but Adam was in the transgression. Judy wrote: She was deceived, Adam was not. He shirked his responsibility and then chose to go with the woman rather than take a stand for righteousness. DM: I received a revelation concerning this once. I realize that such is sometimes difficult to hear... God told me it was this way, so you need to accept it. :-) I'm not saying it with that attitude. I'm only testifying to you that such did happen to me. The Lord told me that Eve sinned in the same way as the angels did, and if it were only left there, no human being could be saved because this amounted to what Scripture calls, willful sin. She knew what she was doing. I immediately asked him about the passage that says that the woman was deceived. From my perspective at that time, I thought this passage indicated the opposite of rebellion, that she was kind of tricked like someone stealing candy from a baby. He said that the word "deceived" there did not mean what I thought it meant. It meant that she was taken in by Lucifer's ideology and accepted it. It is called "deception" not because it was not willful rebellion against God, but because the ideology itself is falsehood. We can say that the angels who sinned were deceived by Lucifer, yet we know that their rebellion was willful, and therefore there is no plan of redemption for them. In contrast to Eve, Adam was not deceived. He did not act in rebellion, but out of love and trust toward his wife. jt: Hmmm .. I don't know that this is a valid revelation from the Spirit of God David because in God's economy the man is responsible. Even under the law a husband or father can get a wife or daughter out of an oath sworn foolishly. Adam could have taken charge of the situation; he didn't. He was the one God gave the instruction to, Eve didn't even repeat it correctly. A deceived person does not know they are deceived and I have a difficult time with the idea that one can disobey God out of love and trust..... DM: The fact that God did indeed consider them one created a unique situation. God could not save one without saving the other. jt: Sure he could; he was going to kill Israel and start a new nation out of Moses wasn't he before Moses interceded for them. I didn't see him including Moses' Midianite wife in this. DM: Therefore, because of the man's authority over the woman, jt: Oh, so you do recognize the authority of the man over the women but you negate his responsibility for her welfare... DM: and because woman was created for the man, the legality of it all allows the woman to be saved. Much of this is taught in passages like 1 Tim. 2 (esp. v. 15) and 1 Cor. 11 (esp. v. 10), but it is not obvious to everyone who reads it. jt: I'm not getting what you are alluding to DM. Paul writes that the woman will be saved through childbearing - that is the Christchild but men are saved in the same way (through his death) or are you making something "special" of the men? Judy wrote: The curse comes by way of the father and Jesus is the ONLY one begotten this way. DM: A spiritual curse does indeed come down through the father, but the physical effects of the curse come down through both mother and father. We know this from our basic knowledge of biology, DNA, genetic inheritance, meiosis, and ethology. You have your interpretation of why there was a virgin birth, and it is related to a false idea of blood inheritance from some medical doctor you quoted who is all wrong on that. It also is related to your perspective that behavior is completely spiritual, because your view is that the "ghost" operates the physical body. I don't believe that completely. The body is not neutral. It is not just a machine. The body creates emotions, passions, desires, and all manner of things that effect behavior. Behavior comes from both the spirit and the physical body. This is why believers must die daily and keep their bodies in subjection. We have received the Spirit of the Lord that we might do the things of God, but if we live according to the flesh, we will die because it still serves self. Only when our behavior is directed solely by the Spirit do we experience the life of the Spirit. Jesus was born pure in his spirit because his identity was from heaven. However, being born of the woman and being descended from the loins of David and Abraham indicate that his physical body was not that perfect body that Adam had before the fall. Rather, all the genetic mutations that exist in all of our bodies also existed in his. The desires of the flesh also operated in his body. In short, the effect of the curse upon the physical body were transmitted to his body through the DNA of Mary. We call this physical depravity. Physical depravity is not the same as moral depravity (see Charles Finney for details). Jesus was not under moral depravity, but he was under physical depravity. This does not make him unholy. It shows us what a victorious lion of God he really was. It teaches us that he conquered the flesh and that he did not only atone for sins by hanging on a cross for hours. David Miller jt: I no longer hold to any theory of a medical doctor but still believe the blood of Jesus is different from the blood of any other human being. It is the blood of the eternal covenant and can cleanse a person's conscience from dead works so that they may serve the living God. Also this thing about Jesus being born pure in spirit with a sinning heathen nature is as ridiculous as the idea of him being fully God and fully man. What is so amazing about God being victorious in the body of a man?? Makes no sense. You would expect God to win over dust.... ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 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