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Dean
writes: . . . we were brought to His state as
Christians.
And from this
morning: Bill I hesitate to answer this as I am
not sure where you stand on the issue of: Did Christ appear in the Heathen state
or in the state we are now as Christians. As a Christian I have all the human
genes that you mentioned yet I am different from Hitler. I have flesh and Blood
but am a new creature in Christ conformed to His image. If I state that
I agree with you then what am I agreeing to?Enlighten
me?
First of all, Dean, the fact
that Christ is the "genos of David" should have no bearing on whether you agree
with me or not. It is Jesus who declares it -- not me. He came in the flesh of
David and Abraham and Adam. You figure it out. That aside, I'll share a couple
thoughts:
1) The ressurected Christ
does not have the same nature in his humanity that he did prior to his
crucifixion. He took on sinful flesh to condemn sin in the flesh. This he
did in his life, death, and resurrection -- sin totally condemned, totally
defeated! Thus his resurrected humanity is "perfected," now completely
victorious. Sin, death, and the devil have absolutely no bearing upon his
resurrected humanity; for in his resurrection the tyrants are totally
defeated, death being the last enemy to fall -- as we too will
discover in the resurrection: "Death is swallowed up in victory. O Death,
where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
2) You keep speaking of
Jesus, prior to the crucifixion, as having had the same nature we have
now as Christians on the other side of the cross. But that is not so. Paul
writes, "Therefore, from now on, we regard no man according to the flesh. Even
though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus
no longer" (2Cor 5.16). There is no new birth or new man or new
creation apart from the resurrection. It is the glorified Christ who sends us
his Spirit, not Christ before having finished the work which he came
to do. Why do you suppose he did not send the Counselor until after his
ressurection? Because the tyants had not yet been fully defeated. Ah but in
his resurrection there is new birth, a new man, a new creation. We are born
into his absolute victory over sin, death, and the devil. Hence, we are now
engaged in a daily struggle between two natures, our old flesh nature that
wants to return to its former ways, and the new resurrected nature of Christ.
But because this relationship is not semetrical either, we do not have to give
into that old man; we can put him to death every day. In other words, "Christ
in us, the hope of glory" is Christ resurrected and ascended.
"I have been
crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but
Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith
in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me"
(Gal 2.19).
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:54
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of
God's Nature?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/1/2006 8:40:22 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of
God's Nature?
You are still blending the natures of Christ,
Dean. The result is mixing you up. The Divinity of Christ was in no way
tainted by his humanity. As God and man, Christ defeated sin
in his own flesh, rendering it powerless in his resurrection from the
grave. In the new birth we are born into his resurrection, new creatures;
hence we are given life from beyond the tomb, where sin, death, and the
devil cannot reach us -- if, that is, we daily put to death that
old man who still wants to rear his head.
Dean, I say this with the utmost sincerity: You
really do need to let go of your alloy view of Jesus; it can only
confuse you.
Bill
cd: This is also getting old John-Christ never
came in the heathen state we were brought to His state as Christians.
Think about it.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006
6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of
God's Nature?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 1/31/2006 11:19:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus
of God's Nature?
cd writes: So I ask you How is
one able to produce destruction for men while the other produces a
quickening spirit for men?
And so it is written, "The first man Adam became
a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving
Spirit.
-- 1 Corinthians
15.45-47
The first Adam was made from dust and
received from God the breath of life. His mandate was one: "Be
fruitful and multiply." But rather than doing what he was told,
Adam chose instead to do the inexplicable. Adam's sin brought death
not only to himself but also to all of his descendants -- Jesus
included. What did the first Adam produce? He produced death.
The second Adam was born into the fall of
the first. But he was also God. In this one person of Christ God and man
came together and accomplished what man alone could not do: the undoing
of the first Adam. Throughout his life, Christ's response to the
fall was not to sin, not to do what Adam had done, but to do his
Father's will. Hence in his person, Christ reclaimed Adam's posterity
(not to mention Adam himself), defeating what had brought death to them
all. Then Christ paid the ultimate price: he died on their behalf. Ah,
but because he had defeated in his own flesh that which had
condemned the flesh of Adam, death had no power to hold
him. Now in ascension the Second Adam sends his spirit to give life
to those who could only die without him. Who is the Second Adam? He
is the life-giving Spirit.
-----------------------
cd:Right-Then how can can the Second Adam
be the same as the first? You guys are stating that Christ was no
different than Hitler but Hitler was the same as the first Adam "exactly
the same"-in the above you show the second Adam to be
different. This is our point.If Christ was the same as the
first we are still in our sins Bill.
-----------------------
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