Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

[Dean Moore]

 

 

 

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To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 2/2/2006 2:53:08 AM

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

cd:There is not doubt that the Law failed and we needed the help of the Holy Spirit to keep the Law-  But you keep saying that God wouldn't ask us to do something we cannot do!!!  Care to change your mind on that one.  :Looks like you already have.

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cd: You are looking at it wrong John. I am stating in what sense the law failed and what sense it didn't fail. It failed because the people dropped the ball due to their flesh being weak and their choice to live by the flesh. It didn't fail as some people sought the way of Godliness and by doing so were able to keep the law. 

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 but it fail as a whole for many lived under that law and went to heaven. How about Elijah ,Isaiah, and Daniel-did they fail with the law? Of course.

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cd: The show me where they fell into sin John? You will not find it and they didn't do so.

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       How about Zacharias and Elizabeth were they not righteous  compare to others -  they were righteous

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cd: John,the Bible didn't say they were righteous when compared to others it states that they were righteous before God-keeping all the Commandments and ordinances-They were able to keep the law John prior to the indwelling-so can we after the indwelling.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

cd: John Wesley wrote:

Luk 1:6 - Walking in all the moral commandments, and ceremonial ordinances, blameless - How admirable a character! May our behaviour be thus unblamable, and our obedience thus sincere and universal!

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 but the fact remains that our righeousness is a filthy rags before the Lord and Jesus, Himself, perhaps thinking of relatives says" and if you [all] being evil know how to give give good gits, how much more   .....

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cd: John can you show me the verse that says our righteousness is as filthy rags-The only place I can find it is in Isa 64:6 and it was speaking to those whom were carried away to Babylonian captivity?? Next point how can a Christian be evil John-this is speaking to the lost that do evil works

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh

cd: Can't I speak good things John-even Jesus saves from hell-I was given a new kinder heart?

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

cd: Do Christians wax worse and worse John or have they become better because Jesus is at the Father's right hand?

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& nbsp;             before Christ came-if they could be righteous before the giving of grace why not us with grace and the Holy Ghost indwelling:  And why this point.  What does this have to do with anything?   I believe that "righteousness" is a gifted consideration in the mind of God (Ro 4:4) He sees faith and uses it as a substitute for [our] personal righteousness.   Why?   BECAUSE HE HAS TO !!   Those you mentioned, above, are not exception to the rule of Romans 4:4.     Agreed?!

cd:" He has to"?? My God doesn't have to do nothing John-He chooses to do for us in His goodness.John our sin put us at odds with God-He had a quarrel  with us and after we received Christ and confessed those sins we got grace given to us and those sin removed-that is what made unrighteous-It is then our task to keep from sinning and returning to that state again-and God shows us how-by walking in holiness. There is a big difference between works prior to salvation and works after salvation. Rom.4:4 is speaking to Abraham not us. Read what  Wesley wrote on the matter.

Rom 4:5 - But to him that worketh not - It being impossible he should without faith. But believeth, his faith is imputed to him for righteousness - Therefore God's affirming of Abraham, that faith was imputed to him for righteousness, plainly shows that he worked not; or, in other words, that he was not justified by works, but by faith only. Hence we see plainly how groundless that opinion is, that holiness or sanctification is previous to our justification. For the sinner, being first convinced of his sin and danger by the Spirit of God, stands trembling before the awful tribunal of divine justice ; and has nothing to plead, but his own guilt, and the merits of a Mediator. Christ here interposes; justice is satisfied; the sin is remitted, and pardon is applied to the soul, by a divine faith wrought by the Holy Ghost, who then begins the great work of inward sanctification. Thus God justifies the ungodly, and yet remains just, and true to all his attributes! But let none hence presume to "continue in sin;" for to the impenit ent, God "is a consuming fire." On him that justifieth the ungodly - If a man could possibly be made holy before he was justified, it would entirely set his justification aside; seeing he could not, in the very nature of the thing, be justified if he were not, at that very time, ungodly.

 cd:The Below is also about works John.

9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.