David wrote: >> But if we walk in the light AS HE IS IN THE LIGHT >> (walk as Jesus Christ himself walked... without sinning), >> we have fellowship one with another and the blood of >> Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin (not SINS, >> but SIN, the condition in which we find ourselves).
John responds: > The text actually says ":.the blood ..keeps on cleansing > us from EVERY sin." Situation verses condition. > "Every sin" speaks of a multiplicity of sin as does > "every tool" reference more than one tool. You are butchering the Greek text here, John. The word "cleanses" in 1 John 1:7 is a present indicative verb, so your "keeps on cleansing" terminology incorrectly translates the passage. You might consider consulting Zodhiates on this. He writes, "The Present Tense in the Indicative Mood represents contemporaneous action, as opposed to action in the past or the future. In moods other than in the indicative mood, it refers only to continuous or repeated action." Your attempt to apply continuous and repeated action here is not supported by the Greek construction. The word you translate as "EVERY" is "pas." It is translated in the KJV and most other translations as "all." I believe that this better captures the meaning of the word in this context. Greek construction will not enable us to distinguish whether "every sin" or "all sin" would be the better choice. However, the context tells us that those who believe in Jesus do not continue to sin, so your translation is not consonant with the rest of the text. John wrote: > Secondly, the focus in my post is not "every sin" > but the present time verb " keeps on cleansing." > If he keeps on cleansing, we must keep on sinning. No, John, we must not keep on sinning. You are ignoring the context, where the apostle follows up with, "I write this to you that you sin not" and "whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." The best way to reconcile both statements is to understand that the sin spoken about in 1 John 1:7 is a condition that exists around us. Our bodies have sinful appetites and passions, and we live in a world filled with temptation. As we walk in the light of Jesus Christ, his blood cleanses us from the sin that exists around us. We might get some dirt on our feet, but he washes it off as it attempts to stay on us. David wrote: >> If we say we have no sin... in other words, >> if we claim that we do not need the blood >> of Christ to cleanse us from the filth and sin >> that we have collected in this world, we lie. John responds: > The text, at this point, is again written in present > time " ------ if we say that we are having no > sin -- we lie". David tweaks the passage just > a bit by putting the "collection" of sin in past time. > very poor exegesis if done unintentionally. You are butchering the Greek yet again. It seems like every time you see a present tense verb, you want to insert repeated and continuous action on it. This verb in the Greek is present indicative like in the other verse. It should say, "if we say that we have no sin..." The context tells us the more complete meaning that he is conveying to us. He just got done telling us how the blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin when we walk in the light as he is in the light. He now answers the objection of some who might say that they don't need any cleansing because they have no sin. In other words, if anybody thinks that they do not need to walk in the light as he is in the light, or that they need no blood of Jesus to cleanse them of all sin, they are deceived. He is establishing the foundation that redemption starts with us acknowledging and confessing our sins, or recognizing our sinful condition. Then we experience both forgiveness and cleansing. Lastly, he admonishes just as strongly that anybody who thinks they are in Christ and continue to sin, they likewise are deceived. You accept only part of his dialogue, and you actually twist it to say something entirely different than what the author intended. John wrote: > And , so we have the present time use of the verb(s) > in vv 7 and 8 and I believe this is the case so that the > reader does not misunderstand the next verse (that > would be verse 9, folks) Don't forget verse 10 which puts it in past tense so that we are not led astray by the rhetoric which you have now presented to us. "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." John wrote: > If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just > to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from > all unrighteousness. > "confess" is still present time (present > subjunctive active) The subjunctive mood implies an uncertainty of when this event would happen, if at all. John wrote: > but then we have this "forgive ..and ..cleanse > ." Both are past-time aorist actives -- indicating > the completeness of the action ----------------- > forgiveness and cleansing are fully accomplished in > this verse. The wonderful news here is that the a > continual flow of the blood of the lamb (present time) > fully accomplishes the action of forgiveness while the > aorist of "forgive and cleanse" finished as in irrevocable !! > Aaaahhhh -- maybe Bill is right about "eternal security!!!" :-) David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
