Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.

[David Miller]

Gary, how come you did not quote the rest of the thread in the link you gave?    I hate the spread of misinformation.  It wastes so much time.   David Miller   ------------- From: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=25342   POWELL: Perhaps it was an inductive inference of what Clement believed by some skeptic rather than a direct quote of what he said that later skeptics misrepresented as the actual quotes of Clement. http://www.earlychristianwritings.c...mata-book6.html Quote: CLEMENT: The Stromata, or Miscellanies Book VI . . . CHAPTER II -- THE SUBJECT OF PLAGIARISMS RESUMED. THE GREEKS PLAGIARIZED FROM ONE ANOTHER. . . . Come, and let us adduce the Greeks as witnesses against themselves to the theft. For, inasmuch as they pilfer from one another, they establish the fact that they are thieves; and although against their will, they are detected, clandestinely appropriating to those of their own race the truth which belongs to us. For if they do not keep their hands from each other, they will hardly do it from our authors. I shall say nothing of philosophic dogmas, since the very persons who are the authors of the divisions into sects, confess in writing, so as not to be convicted of ingratitude, that they have received from Socrates the most important of their dogmas. But after availing myself of a few testimonies of men most talked of, and of repute among the Greeks, and exposing their plagiarizing style, and selecting them from various periods, I shall turn to what follows. Orpheus, then, having composed the line: "Since nothing else is more shameless and wretched than woman," Homer plainly says: "Since nothing else is more dreadful and shameless than a woman." POWELL: Apparently, Clement used these texts to show plagiarism among the Greek writers, not necessarily to imply that he supported the bigoted idea itself. Perhaps a skeptical reader concluded that because Clement used this example as part of his efforts to show that the Greeks stole ideas from the Christians without any denial that he supported the particular anti-woman view therefore Clement likely supported the view. John Powell ================   That reference sounds suspicious. I doubt Clement of Alexandria wrote that. His attitude towards women is that they are spiritually equal to men. He did express a view about a woman's role that is out of date with today's feminism, (cooking and cleaning), but his views clearly are not anywhere near as misogynistic as the views expressed in this mysterious quote. ================ From:  http://www.tektonics.org/af/bogusq.html Clement of Alexandria Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman. OWD. Origins? The laboriously inept "positive atheism" site credits "from Lea, History of Sacerdotal Celibacy (page 320), quoted from Joseph Lewis, The Ten Commandments (page 422)." Page 320 of this book is about heretical views in Europe c. 1200-1400; needless to say, Clement is not mentioned, and he is not even listed in Lea's index, nor does he appear in the few pages Lea has on the patristic church. I think Skeptic John Powell offers a reasonable explanation here.   ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit. <<Quote: JPHOLDING: According to several popular Skeptical sites, but so far as I can see, not any site that deals in original writings (earlychristianwritings.com, ccel.org), St Clement of Alexandria said, "....every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman". "Lea, History of Sacerdotal Celibacy (page 320)" is often cited as a source, and I will be looking at it in the next week if needed, but in the meantime, anyone out there want to tell me what ORIGINAL work of Clement this supposedly comes from? Some also cite his "The Tutor" as a source, but I have found nothing like it in the original on Peter's site. Can someone give me a citation, at least? Or is this another Pope Leo X fiasco?>>   http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=25342   --- On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 21:09:27 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Lance wrote: > > Every woman should be filled with shame by > > the thought that she is a woman. > > ~ Clement of Alexandria, Second Century > > I believe this is a bogus quote.  If not, please supply an > appropriate reference for confirmation.  Thank you. > > David Miller.