1. I believe that I Cor 5: 9-13 is plain enough for you. The problem lies in your predilection to [perhaps] a number of intersecting and personal teachings. Such teachings cannot be grafted into this passage and so you have problems. Such happens to all of us, of course. Your situation is far from unique.
The "judgment" referred to here in this passage involves a number of factors - some of which are unsettling to your way of thinking. Paul's evangelical premise is profound -- " I become all things to all men so that by all means I might save some" and ties into his view of "effective" evangelism. The exclusion of the offending BROTHER has nothing to do with the evangelistic strategies of Paul to a "lost and dying" world. Paul knows and believes in the difference between moral and immoral. He is uncompromising on that issue. But he does not get the cart before the horse. [It seems to me that ] You and your SPing pals ask questions that are not being asked and give answers that are not well received all because those who "listen" are nowhere near the question "what must we do?" Evangelism is an easy thing when The Question is assumed --- easy and ineffective. It is another matter, entirel
y, to deal with a wicked world full of hurting people. Stephen preached to those "within" and were about to kill him. Not your typical typical. Paul , in Athens dealt with those without Judgment was not a part of his message to the "unsaved" ( I Cor 5:12 "for what have I to do wtih judging those also who are outside." The answer is implied, is it not?
2. I believe the two witnesses are the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus in Revelations.
3. Jesus is not our example when it comes to judging the world. He alone is the judge. He will judge all of mankind, including us on That Day. In this day and time, we are to conduct ourselves as not to bring shame to the Message. I expect you to confuse the issue here, but I will wait for that event.
4. If you do not judge anyone, what is the problem? I am critical of those who do judge those in the world, driving them out the back door.
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David writes:
When you talk about what we do as judges, do you mean in the resurrection
when we judge angels or now? I don't understand what you are trying to say
or why this would make any difference.
The passages for your point of view are not as direct as the ones that I
shared. The 1 Cor. 5 passage has to do with the church judging someone in
sin within the church. It speaks of driving a person out of relationship
with the church, so it argues against your paragraph which said, "drive them
[the ppl] away and the judgment is not of God." Your other passage in
Romans does not concern sin, but rather judging others in their personal
convictions. It supports what you are trying to say, but not in the context
in which you apply it (street preaching). Also, it speaks of those IN the
church, not those OUTSIDE the church. It says nothing about whether or not
we should testify to the world that fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals,
murderers, thieves , liars, the covetous, cowards and sissies will not
inherit the kingdom of God.
The passages I shared were not just about what God does as judge. The two
witnesses are men, not God. I can bring up many other similar passages.
Furthermore, what Jesus does in the form of judging while on earth is our
example of how we ought to judge. There are ways in which Jesus did not
judge, and there are ways in which he did judge. Those he sent out did the
same work as he did, polarizing people such that some were moved away from
God while others were moved closer to God. The criterium of people moving
away from God is a sign that God is at work. Don't be blind about this.
As for the notion that I judge the world, that is utterly foolish. I do not
judge anyone. I testify that their deeds are evil and that every person
will be judged one day. I testify that Christ has come and now calls all
men to repentance. I preach the forgiven ess of sins and the resurrection of
the dead. I call men and women to repent and enter the kingdom of God. I
continue the work of Jesus Christ, and I don't judge others any more than
Jesus judged others when he ministered here in the flesh.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, Februa ry 14, 2006 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
My comment has to do with what we do as "judges." Your scripture has to do
with what God does as judge. I would have thought you would have noted
the difference with my comment. Obviously not. I have given you the
scriptures that have to do with my point of view (I Cor 5:11-13 and Romans
14:4). I would cite other scriptures such as those that speak of love for
the brethren, but you guys do not have the same understanding of love as
others on this forum.
when we judge angels or now? I don't understand what you are trying to say
or why this would make any difference.
The passages for your point of view are not as direct as the ones that I
shared. The 1 Cor. 5 passage has to do with the church judging someone in
sin within the church. It speaks of driving a person out of relationship
with the church, so it argues against your paragraph which said, "drive them
[the ppl] away and the judgment is not of God." Your other passage in
Romans does not concern sin, but rather judging others in their personal
convictions. It supports what you are trying to say, but not in the context
in which you apply it (street preaching). Also, it speaks of those IN the
church, not those OUTSIDE the church. It says nothing about whether or not
we should testify to the world that fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals,
murderers, thieves , liars, the covetous, cowards and sissies will not
inherit the kingdom of God.
The passages I shared were not just about what God does as judge. The two
witnesses are men, not God. I can bring up many other similar passages.
Furthermore, what Jesus does in the form of judging while on earth is our
example of how we ought to judge. There are ways in which Jesus did not
judge, and there are ways in which he did judge. Those he sent out did the
same work as he did, polarizing people such that some were moved away from
God while others were moved closer to God. The criterium of people moving
away from God is a sign that God is at work. Don't be blind about this.
As for the notion that I judge the world, that is utterly foolish. I do not
judge anyone. I testify that their deeds are evil and that every person
will be judged one day. I testify that Christ has come and now calls all
men to repentance. I preach the forgiven ess of sins and the resurrection of
the dead. I call men and women to repent and enter the kingdom of God. I
continue the work of Jesus Christ, and I don't judge others any more than
Jesus judged others when he ministered here in the flesh.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, Februa ry 14, 2006 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
My comment has to do with what we do as "judges." Your scripture has to do
with what God does as judge. I would have thought you would have noted
the difference with my comment. Obviously not. I have given you the
scriptures that have to do with my point of view (I Cor 5:11-13 and Romans
14:4). I would cite other scriptures such as those that speak of love for
the brethren, but you guys do not have the same understanding of love as
others on this forum.
