So let me see if I heard you right. Turbine has too much functionality
already included and you would prefer to write it yourself, because you
can do it simpler and better. Struts does not include a lot of the
parts you are wanting to write for yourself and only offers JSP as a
view, so it is a better fit for you.
I hope you are planning to share some of this simpler, better code with
Struts, so others can benefit.
And what is a "normal" URL. There is a spec that URL's must follow and
Turbine does not deviate from it, I am not sure how it could.
john mcnally
Charles Wise wrote:
>
> This'll probably start a flamewar but I'm in exactly the same position. I'm
> also torn between the two. I want very much to use Turbine. I've been
> lurking on this list for months and playing with Turbine but I've come to
> the conclusion that I'm going to use Struts. Here's the reasons:
>
> - We're a WebSphere shop. We're building an enterprise infrastructure
> including scalability and security. It ties into WebSphere, Tivoli, etc.
> Turbine is not setup to use anything other then its own internal security
> and database pool.
> - We're a straight IT shop, not a web or product shop. We get body shop
> people for many tasks and its hard enough to get quality people let alone
> train them on Velocity / Turbine. Using a "standard" like JSP helps to
> minimize the training and learning curve problem. You can use JSP with
> Turbine but as every person who asks a JSP question on the list can tell
> you, its not well supported.
> - Struts is extremely simple to explain and use and performs very well.
> Turbine is very complex. I can easily tweak a Struts app logical flow
> without recompiling and I don't have to track the latest libraries.
> - Struts is very stable. My biggest problem with Turbine is that its a
> constantly moving target. The older versions don't meet my requirements and
> the development version is moving too fast to use (not that that one meets
> all my requirements either).
> - And as a very small nit, you can use normal URLs with Struts. I'm sorry
> but telling people to use mod_rewrite is not a solution. I need to be able
> to field an installation package to multiple servers w/o having people
> fiddle around with Apache. It's hard enough getting things through QA onto
> the production boxes as it is.
>
> What Struts is (primarily) missing is:
> - Layouts
> - Services
> - Database layer
> - Security
>
> Security is a wash, I have to authenticate using WebSphere's security to get
> single sign-on regardless of the approach I take.
>
> It's (relatively) easy to write a JNDI datasource object for Turbine but I
> can't easily rip out the security framework. I'm also not sure about the
> Criteria approach. Instead I'll adapt an extremely simple generator I wrote
> that produces code very similar to the Peers system. I've also looked very
> hard at Castor but I've got problems with its cacheing approach and startup
> times.
>
> The services I mostly like but I'll end up writing a simple system to
> replace that as well. I don't need most of the complexity in the services
> framework and I want to simplify the logic. If you add service
> dependendency you really don't need the whole early initialization thing.
>
> Layouts and Velocity I'll simply miss. I really, really like Velocity and
> the Turbine layout system. It's simple, easy and powerful. None of my JSP
> alternatives appeal to me. Instead I'll be relying on JSP includes.
>
> Ted Wise
>
> >From: "Chris Kmiec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: turbine vs. struts
> >Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:51:57
> >
> >I am in charge of architecting a little web system which will use some of
> >the jakarta components. I am torn between using Struts and Turbine. I am
> >wondering if maintaining Velocity templates will be more difficult than
> >just
> >using straight JSPs with Struts. I want to come up with a solid, scaleable
> >architecture. Any suggestions? Opinions? Pros and cons for either solution?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >--Chirs
> >_________________________________________________________________
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