On Sun, 2003-03-16 at 09:33, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote: > Jason van Zyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > The question is: > > Are you still around here in the real sense of a developer and committer? > > or > > Are you no longer a committer in any real sense?
Most definitely as you will soon find out once maven.apache.org is up and running. This has been the plan for a long period of time. My committment is to the Turbine project not to the 2.x codebase specifically. > At least I would be very grateful if you would finally decide what you > want. I'm unhappy that you walk around @ irc calling me "a foe" and > want to go "toe to toe" with me and "really give me a fight" but then > barge in when finally someone wants to tackle the documentation > problem of a project you don't really care any longer about. Henning don't assume that you know what my intentions are. And if you look far back I did not start the conflict that started between us. I find you generally confrontational, devisive and tactless. I don't consider you a foe, I essentially consider you a bad thing that has happened to Turbine. I don't really think about you on a personal level. If someone wants to make some docuementation then great. Write some documentation. Like I said before: grand Turbine documentation projects have been proposed before and not much has resulted. I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, just speaking from the perspective of being around here for a while. > So what will it be? > > >1) Docbook is massive and for the most part it's overkill for the type > [...] > >2) If it is desired to support multiple formats that is fine but the > [...] > > Your objections have surely been noted by Chris and whoever will be on > the documentation team. I personally will work there only as someone > who gives his code knowledge to the team and I will go with whatever > these guys decide to use. The primary discussions should be the organization of content. As I said in the previous message anyone can write documentation in any format and I will convert it. But before any great lengthly discussions occur the users here should be presented with a view of what the future could be like. > > So even if you have any personal problems with me, please keep them > aside and argue from an objective point of view. As I've said before I don't care about you personally. I care about the project. > > anakia format has been around a long time and serves it's purpose well > > and should remain the primary format. > > Where is the "anakia" format documented, http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site-tags.html http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site-tags-example.html Which has served many of the Jakarta sites. It's really not that complicated. > how can the docs team write > docs in this format efficiently and what tools are available to work > with this format. Into which formats can it be converted? Will you > actively work with Chris and other potential doc writers or will you > simply block everything that does not fit your grand vision? I am not blocking the writing of documentation. Please, lets gather some documentation before assembling the grand "Documentation Team". The assembly of the content is far more important. What I'm afraid of is discussion will center around the tool, a great deal of effort will be exerted converting everything and then the effort will peter out. If the documentation is created, the format found to be limiting then it is very easy to convert it. It's just not practical to again go though a conversion process when there is no addition content. It just doesn't make sense. > Why do you come rushing in with "This will not happen as long as I'm > around", trying to block any possible progress while you publicly > stated that you don't work with the current T2 code any longer? I am not interested in the 2.x codebase but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in users being able to run 2.x code and move toward a more coherent component-based system like Avalon where true maintainability is possible and for which there is a great body of literature to draw from which is only a benefit to users. > You said that you consider at least my work with the T2 code as > "irrelevant" and think that everything I do on the current code base > has already been done very much better in other projects (at least you > said so in public on #turbine @ irc.werken.com) . So, why do you even > bother to hang around here anymore? I do believe that Turbine 2.x is largely irrelavant as a code base and you are just replicating what's already been done. For what reason I'm not entirely sure. I stick around because I do care about the users. As my role draws to a close in getting maven.apache.org up and running my desire to create a coherent application framework will return as my primary concern. I have been very much undecided about where I would like things like Plexus/Summit to land and that has been coloured heavily by my interactions with the Board and my general feeling of how things work at Jakarta. A great deal of conflict has either been resolved or set aside and the Board sanctioned maven.apache.org so at least as far as the future of Turbine is involved I am much more hopeful. Unlike you I am not going to make any assumptions and as I've stated before I will fully disclose what I'm doing and give people the option. Do I have opinions, of course. Do I have vision, most certainly. But I definitely don't like way you do things which seem to be a great deal of change with no colloration in any of the known forums. You don't seem to discuss anything in IRC and I never see any discussion before you drop in a great deal of code change. I have often made swift changes to the code base but there has always been some modicum of discussion on IRC. Again, my interest in is the users, not you personally. > Regards > Henning > -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
