At 06:34 26/8/00 -0400, you wrote:
>On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 07:27:40PM +1000, Peter Donald wrote:
>The issue is not the package names but the architecture. Jon really only
>cares to support Turbine but a lot of WebMacro users depend on that
>architecture that sits above WM's own parser. Implementing the parser
>interface in WM means supporting user-defined directives that are
>discovered at runtime.
sounds fair.
>I'm not going to donate any code to the Apache group unless I have
>some reason to believe that the ongoing development will continue to
>support my needs and those of all my users. That's not arrogance,
>that's just sane.
If you want to give give. If you dont .. then don't :P. I am sure lots os
people would love to see webmacro at apache. Apache is known (for what I
can tell) for supporting it's customer base so it is extremely unlikely
that anyone is going to remove features or make it more difficult for users.
I am sure the ongoing dev will help both you and your users. I have only
ever seen one case where anyone at Apache has refused to help a "customer"
(and that customer happened to be another Apache developer - so I am not
sure if that counts :P). Usually they are relatively good.
>Jon's hype aside, Velocity is pretty thin right now. It has a good
>parser, but everything else needs to be replaced, and none of the
>framework architecture exists (nor is Jon ever likely to add it since
>it doesn't matter as a Turbine plug-in).
>
>It's also true that WM could use a better parser.
granted.
>I don't really care whose tree or what license this happens under.
then why not place it under APL regardless :P
>I simply have these pragmatic needs:
>
> 1. my current projects aren't destroyed
prolly change package names and slight interface changes but I doubt they
will break anything major.
> 2. my users are supported in an ongoing fashion
undoubtably will happen.
> 3. i continue to get credit for my work
You will - but it may in the form you want :P. To be honest I know of only
three developers here who are significantly known outside apache by name.
All of these people happened to be initial creators of some project that
winded up being real good. Apache is more a community and thus you get
credit for what you do. However no one is untouchable - no one is special -
except for those who earn it :P.
If you want fame - Apache is probably not the place for you. If you want to
make a great framework then you will most likely be welcomed with open arms
:P.
>Merging in the Velocity parser and avoiding the split resources just
>gives me a better shot of taking on JSP. If WebMacro doesn't outperform
>JSP already, it will soon. It has much more flexibility, and it's gaining
>hugely in mindshare.
here I think the problem lies - you said "gives ***me*** a better shot of
taking on JSP" which is the impression I have got from you. You want to
somehow be special - here at Apache we talk in we not me.
>Velocity isn't really a threat to WM, but it'll slow us both down if
>we build the same thing. Mostly I just dislike bitter rivalry and
>I could use the parser.
Well you can use the parser anyway - thats the beauty of APL :)
>> I am sure people would love to see webmacro at apache. I haven't used it
>> before but I hear good things. However it can not be on your terms - it
>> will be on terms of whoever runs Apache (PLC ??).
>
>I won't do anything with WM if it leaves all my existing userbase
>in the lurch.
unlikely to happen in any case. You need to make a decision. Can you work
in a relatively ego-less environment. Me I thrive on it :P. About the only
*credit* you will receive is your name on all the src files and
contributors.txt. You may get to do some discussion at some conference or
ApacheCon (I have no idea if this is true - I suspect it is thou) but they
are more likely to be less about ego and more about sharing.
So the way I see it is
1. None of your projects will be haphazardly broken
2. None of ****WebMacros**** users will be deliberately sabotaged (Notice I
did not use the term 'your')
3. You will not be the center of WebMacro anymore.
If you can live with 3 - then come join - if not ... it is unfortunate but
little can be done. I mean no ill-will towards you but thats just facts.
Whatever you decide, good-luck.
Cheers,
Pete
*------------------------------------------------------*
| "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want |
| to test a man's character, give him power." |
| -Abraham Lincoln |
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