On Sat, 2007-04-08 at 21:36 +0000, johnbrad wrote: > Well, I thought Horst's comments reflect the real world of software > development. > We keep being told that "TG is not for everyone". If it is not for > people who are trying to develop and maintian software in a stable > commercial environment, who is it for?
Ah, but the words "stable and commercial environment" are very general. I would never trust any consultant who thought that they mean the same thing for all businesses. My first job as a freelancer is to talk to my clients and discuss why there is no one good solution and we don't have the same priorities or use the same tools as a bank, or large insurance company, or space ship. We need to find what the right balance is *for them* in terms of flexibility, features per dollar, stability, deployment, security, etc. And that should be complicated. There are many many businesses out there who will trade some amount of stability for rapid development. TG is perfect for *my* niche, small independent businesses who need to react fast, watch the bottom line, and be able to ramp up ( or down ) at a moment's notice. I have no problems pitching them on TG with all it's ups and downs because stable tried solutions in J2EE are just plain way out of their budgets. Personally, I have sometimes found that many developers at larger companies have a very hard time imagining that there are other markets for development and IT out there with a *completely* different set of priorities. Your *real world* is but only one of many *real worlds* out there. We have reached a stage now where a small company can actually buy usable customized business software for under $10k from a sole propriatorship. The rules and expectations for them are not even close to the same as those for a public traded company buying mission critical software for hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I can tell you from the street that there's a boom on at that end of the market, so if you're thinking of quitting a job to freelance, Now's The Time! =) Iain > > John > > On 4 Aug, 01:40, iain duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 17:31 +1000, Horst Herb wrote: > > > On Thursday 02 August 2007 07:04, iain duncan wrote: > > > > After that, it's really none of their concern which version of TG I use. > > > > > If you enter a serious contract witha customer who knows what he is doing, > > > this is not good enough. > > > > > I know the situation well enough from both sides (both as developer as > > > well as > > > employing contractors for projects) that long term maintainenace plays a > > > heavy role in all serious contracts, and demonstrating that long term > > > meintenace (eg security patches etc) is warranted is certainly a condition > > > without you won't sign any contracts with me. > > > > > Frameworks that are under rapid development with ustable APIs are very > > > nice > > > for proof-of-concept development, one-off quickies etc - but absolutely > > > unsuitable for serious deployment of long term projects UNLESS you are > > > prepared to put in the substantial extra maintenance work. > > > > > Frameworks with stable APIs and lots of things going on under the hood are > > > fine in that apsect though - if I can do an easy_install -U ... and it > > > doesn't break my site, it's usable. Else, it's not. > > > > I'm sure your attitude makes sense for your business niche. But, that > > does not mean that what is true for you is necessarily true for others. > > I do not contract to IT managers, I sell directly to small businesses. > > They hire me because I understand *them* and understand that they > > *don't* want to know what goes in code or what I use or how we deploy. > > They just want stable working solutions customized to their business > > model at a good price. The libraries in TG allow me to do this at a very > > good price to them. The maintenance cost of having to use a frozen > > python environment for their project is much smaller that the cost that > > would have been incurred by doing the same work in java or php. Their > > uprgade cycle is slow and they don't have any IT department that I need > > to coordinate with. > > > > The libraries we are using in TG are frequently 0.* releases. If you > > need to be able to update the global shared library anytime, that's a > > valid concern, but then IMHO you shouldn't be using TG in the first > > place. A framework using brand new tools is not a good fit for you if > > your number one priority is a stable api. Not a value judgement at all. > > I'm just pointing out that because that issue is a show stopper to *you* > > does not mean at all that it is necessarily a big deal to other clients. > > > > Iain > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TurboGears" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
