On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 3:00 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > Eastwood is smarter and more politically involved, but even counting his > loopy Convention speech I don’t think on his worst day he has ever been as > toxic and hateful in his views as Wayne was. If people today don’t think he > is worth taking apart, all the better if it means he has been forgotten. > For those of us who grew up in his seemingly ever present shadow, the > trauma is real. >
I won’t discount your trauma, as I’m sure it is genuine. And I concede I’ve always had a preference of Wayne over Eastwood. But Eastwood literally entered the political arena both as an active politician and as a part of the anti-Obama cult (which would reform as the Trump cult). The moment with the chair was iconic and probably his most notorious political stunt unless you lived in Carmel during his tenure. Wayne gave his notorious Playboy interview where he poorly expressed what was then a standard talking point about the level of education of black men in America… it was horrible and indefensible, and it was a commonly held belief by white conservatives at that time. The fact Eastwood continued to push a racist political agenda for several decades following the death of Wayne… and for several decades after many conservatives tried to distance itself from those views… to me that is what makes Eastwood worse. Perhaps had Wayne lived he’d have continued down that road and been worse than Eastwood, but Eastwood perpetuated it for another forty years. > On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 1:03 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 12:07 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> This is roughly consistent with my understanding, both of what actually >>> happened that night, and that the Will Smith assault brought the whole >>> story up again in force on Twitter. >>> >>> Late on Oscar night I was involved in a brief flame war on my Twitter >>> feed when I tried to gently modify unqualified assertions about John Wayne >>> having to be restrained from beating the shit out of Littlefeather. I was >>> pretty sure that never happened, as my parents knew people who were part of >>> the Wounded Knee event and were in touch with Littlefeather in the days and >>> weeks after that Oscar show, and while there were lots of stories about the >>> racist Academy members, there were none about almost being beat up by John >>> Wayne (we all hated Wayne in those days, and would have been a very >>> receptive audience). Still, on Oscar night 2022 Twitter was full of >>> overconfident claims that the focus on Chris Rock was an example of a >>> misogynistic re-writing of history, since Littlefeather had almost been >>> killed by the Duke and nobody ever talks about it. >>> >>> I agree with Nehme’s reconstruction of what likely happened, though not >>> with the gentle implication that Littlefeather was lying. My guess is that >>> at some point after the fact somebody told her something like “Wayne was >>> super pissed, and sounded like he wanted to beat the shit out of you.” Put >>> that together with how scary and intimidating it would have been for her in >>> that situation, not to mention how tense things were at Wounded Knee, >>> (where as I recall 2 or 3 tribal members were murdered) and it is easy to >>> see how, in her mind, as she is rushed off stage and into the elevator >>> somewhere an out of control John Wayne, living (barely) symbol of Indian >>> Killers everywhere, was somewhere near by straining at restraints to get at >>> her. >>> >> >> I am constantly reminded of Bob Newhart’s one-liner about The Duke, as he >> sarcastically quipped “Do you ever think about how close we came to losing >> WWII had it not been for John Wayne?” Wayne evoked an image, literally and >> figuratively larger than life, of the archetypal hero, but he was mostly >> bluster, and by most accounts of him as a private man, politics largely >> bored him. He’d talk politics publicly and on set because he disliked >> discussing his personal life with people he wasn’t close to. It’s also >> ironic that although Clint Eastwood played the typically more progressive >> anti-hero in most of his westerns, he was (and continues to be) much more >> conservative than Wayne on his worst days. Wayne’s openly pro-union views >> would get him a “woke” label by the current GOP. I will not defend Wayne’s >> racist views, they aren’t defensible, but I also don’t believe those views >> factor into the minds of too many people who watch his movies today. He’s >> an easy “hero” to deconstruct, but not many people think he’s worth taking >> the time to deconstruct. >> >> >>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 at 7:05 AM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Film historian Farrah Smith Nehme did a deep dive into footage from >>>> that Oscar night and subsequent interviews to see if the incident with >>>> Wayne really happened, and if not, where the story came from. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://selfstyledsiren.substack.com/p/john-wayne-and-the-six-security-men?s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web >>>> >>>> Her conclusion: Wayne was post-surgery for lung cancer and was less >>>> than physically robust. Since Littlefeather was on stage for less than two >>>> minutes and she hadn’t submitted her speech in advance, Wayne wouldn’t have >>>> had enough time to get to the stage from his seat. It’s possible he was >>>> already backstage and expressed anger, but that would have been at Brando >>>> for dissing the Academy and the ceremony. >>>> >>>> The story of the six security men restraining him seems to come from >>>> interviews after Wayne’s death and was an embellishment of what happened >>>> that night. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 3:03 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I did watch that night, and my parents were the type that were all in >>>>> for her from the start; my parents were indirectly involved in a group >>>>> supporting the Wounded Knee protest (it was probably my mothers favorite >>>>> Oscar moment of all time). >>>>> >>>>> I think there has been some Public shaming, growing on Twitter since >>>>> the Will Smith incident, as the story about Wayne Having to be restrained >>>>> from physically attacking her got traction. >>>>> >>>>> Still, I agree it was a good idea to do this while she is still alive >>>>> to appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 11:29 AM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I was really touched by this story. I didn’t watch the Oscars that >>>>>> night but I remember friends and classmates sneering at her and I don’t >>>>>> remember any introspection or contrition since then. Too often the public >>>>>> atonement comes only after the target has died. It surprises me in a good >>>>>> way that the Academy stepped up without a public shaming campaign and >>>>>> they >>>>>> can tell Littlefeather that the institution was wrong while she is still >>>>>> alive. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 11:05 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The Native American woman, now 75, who famously gave a rejection >>>>>>> speech in Marlon Brando's behalf for his 1973 Best Actor Oscar for *The >>>>>>> Godfather*, will be honoured in September at the Academy Museum, an >>>>>>> event that will also feature dancing/musical performances and remarks >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> Academy officials and another Native, area California Assemblyman James >>>>>>> Ramos (San Bernardino area)... a free, by-reservation livestream has >>>>>>> apparently been booked solid... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/sacheen-littlefeather-oscars-apology-1235198863/ >>>>>>> (link) >>>>>>> B >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/0d236c2b-670a-4c03-832b-ab5905874df6n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/0d236c2b-670a-4c03-832b-ab5905874df6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiHux4jtD%2BBW8jT2J8LZDkz5wwSNr43NP%3DF62H4dh7Dh2Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiHux4jtD%2BBW8jT2J8LZDkz5wwSNr43NP%3DF62H4dh7Dh2Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYLY00HZiXL4cewRqz75g1mivRWCr8ORKVrWt1JuMHVBuA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYLY00HZiXL4cewRqz75g1mivRWCr8ORKVrWt1JuMHVBuA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiHV78XarZu_hBx5hpDiBLhWbzAHcbZ7FTwZjiVM1tzabQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiHV78XarZu_hBx5hpDiBLhWbzAHcbZ7FTwZjiVM1tzabQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2B_u5EM%3Deb1-fBOXAfLKO1%3DPsHBaL%2Bj3GqreNWKibHRTw%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2B_u5EM%3Deb1-fBOXAfLKO1%3DPsHBaL%2Bj3GqreNWKibHRTw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> Kevin M. 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