Sorry for this massage being somewhat off topic in here ...

Francois PIETTE wrote:

>>Sure their privacy policy of the day say they won't spam, but it also
>>says "We reserve the right to change our privacy policy at any time"
>If they change their policy, this would apply only to the data they 
>collected after their change.
In a perfect world, that's how it would work. The way they usually do it 
is to hide somewhere on their site an note saying that the new terms 
apply to all users but you can opt out of the data sharing. Some even 
require you to send a snail mail letter to their 'office' in Aruba or 
Beijing ...
They also generally sell their lists to resellers immediately after they 
announce the policy change (when not before!) so that as few as possible 
will have a chance to 'opt out' before the sale is completed.

In this particular case:
The relevant part is : "If we are going to use users' personally 
identifiable information in a manner different from that stated at the 
time of collection, we will notify users by placing a notice on our site"

Another case of 'If' that means 'When' ...

>Anyway, the mailing list is indexed by google, so your email is already 
>referenced by google. Search for a part of a message you wrote, for example 
>"but this part of DNS is still some kind" (use double quotes in google 
>search to do an exact search) and you get it 
>You can aslo search for your email, either "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" or "erv at 
>sympatico.ca" and you find some references. You are well known on the 
>internet. I'm sure you already receive a lot of spam as I do (hundreds of 
>messages each single day).
First of all, if you get that much spam, do yourself a favor and add 
some spam filtering to your mail account. Getting your daily email will 
be a much better experience.

There are different levels of spam. Pill / porn / mortgage / stock scams 
peddlers are the ones using spiders running on hijacked machines to 
gather emails the way you describe and honestly, They don't bother me 
much since their crap is easy to filter and will be deleted before ever 
reaching my machine. Their main effect is to make the mail server drive 
run slightly hotter and somewhat delay delivery for legitimate mails.

Those that create more of a problem are the semi legitimate ones who 
navigate the gray area between spammy spam and legitimate lists.
To operate legally or at least in a less contentious way, these lists 
don't use spider gathered  mails and require each mail address they get 
from their 'partners' for supposedly 'opt in' inclusion in their lists 
to have a verifiable (not forged) dated IP.

By inviting us, you implicitly gave them the dated IP, and the clear 
intent of your action was to have them send an email to the addresses 
you entered. It's more than enough for the 'opt-in' list resellers. I 
highly suspect Frappr is / will soon be one of those 'partners', since 
that's a major source of revenue for such sites (they claim to have more 
than a million users. If true, we're talking about a sizable amount of 
money here).

If in 2 or 3 months, I start getting various 'newsletters', I won't be 
able to do anything about it, since they'll have a verifiable, non 
forged IP / date for my 'registration'. That's the main purpose behind 
these 'email this page to / invite a friend' links. They like them a 
lot, since complaining about it (as I'm doing now) seems quite rude and 
most people will not do it.

Typically, lists users (such as Mypoints, Commission Junction ...) are 
'legitimate businesses' whose messages are sent to a mix of recipients 
where some really requested them but most were bought from 'partners' 
who used a handful of tricks to get their 'consent'.

Since the messages tend to be spammy but can arguably result in lots of 
false positives, their domains end up being whitelisted, thus rendering 
filtering impractical. They might send only 5% of all spam, but they 
often end up being 50% of spam that arrives in a properly filtered mail 
box, and that's why they are an annoyance.

The 'opt in' you made with our email will not double my spam intake ;-) 
yet, people like me who keep their addresses for a long period of time 
(I got this one in 96), have to be careful and adequately protect them 
so that they remains usable, including to receive valuable informations 
from lists such as this one.



>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Eric Montréal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "ICS support mailing" <twsocket@elists.org>
>Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 4:15 PM
>Subject: Re: [twsocket] ICS and MidWare Frappr group
>>Francois PIETTE wrote:
>>>I added custom pins to the Frappr ICS and MidWare group
>>>(http://www.frappr.com/icsandmidware). Using those pins, you can tell if 
>>>are an ICS or a MidWare user, or both. If you already put your entry to
>>>Frappr, please edit it to change your pin according to what you use. If 
>>>haven't added yourself to the map, just do it now !
>>I am sure the intention was good, and this Frappr thing can be
>>appealing, but ...
>>I would have liked this to be put only in the mailing list so that
>>anyone interested could join
>>instead of  sending all our email addresses to "Rising Concept LLC" who
>>operate Frappr.
>>(or Am I the only one who got their "You have been invited to join 'ICS
>>and MidWare'"
>>email ?)
>>By doing so, you 'opted in' everyone on the list to receive whatever
>>they want to send us.
>>Sure their privacy policy of the day say they won't spam, but it also
>>says "We reserve the
>>right to change our privacy policy at any time"
>>Clearly, their business model is to sell people's location to
>>advertisers. This information is
>>valuable for marketers since they can not legally get it in most
>>When people sign for a list such as this one, they expect to be
>>subscribing to the list and
>>nothing else. A list maintainer should always consider the membership
>>list a confidential
>>information and never share it with a third party.
>>My 0.02 ...
>>To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list
>>please goto http://www.elists.org/mailman/listinfo/twsocket
>>Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be 

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