Man, I didn't realize that posting my opinion about the U2U would have ended up in a cyber war. Being a user, sometimes contributor, U2UG Presidential candidate, and someone that does influence buying products for the company I work for, I don't care what the subject line contains because most of the information on this list is helpful in some way. I think that if the subject is a full blown ad for a product it should be posted in the subject line just so those that don't want to be tainted by the possibility of learning when new products are available. But if the information is an answer to a problem and just happens to be a product that is sold or provided by the individual trying to help, I see no reason to post it as an ad. For those people that think this list is purely technical, I've got news for you, it's not. This is the main list for the U2 Users Group. This means that sometimes things discussed on this list are not technical but information provided to the community as a whole. To help us stay with the game. Yes, there is an u2-community list but, to be frank, it is hardly ever used. All forms of multi-value product users and vendors are welcome to participate but it is still the only way of getting free, practically instantaneous, information to U2 users.
-----Original Message----- From: Clifton Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 1:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [U2] RE: Get a grip - was ads - was U2 University Last Week In Denver Chuck, please forgive me if it looks like I'm jumping into a Moderator issue; that is not my intent! As a private citizen and consultant and ex-list-host, I'd like to address this current discussion. I think that list members like Tony G and Susan J are being unfairly castigated (no "R" in there, so chill) for their postings. First, a brief summary of history: I hosted the u2-users list for 9+ years. It was a growing experience for all of us. We eventually hit the point where the Geeks didn't want to have "their" list defiled with anything non-technical. About the same time, the IBM contributors were dropping out because of the noise-to-signal ratio. That's when we split the non-technical discussions off to a different list, u2-community--much to the verbal dismay of some people yet unto this day. At the same time, the [ad] tagging was introduced to allow the "purist" geeks to avoid anything smelling like Real World Marketing. The usage of the tags has changed slightly since I turned the reins over to U2UG, but the intent seems to be the same. Now for the Cyber-Spanking (yes; I'm the one who coined the term): Tagging is a voluntary thing. Some people will do it, some won't. Most will try, but forget, or be inconsistent. For heaven's sake, people are human. They forget. They don't think in terms of, "how can I write this in order to pussyfoot around the greatest number of underpaid geek's raw nerve endings?" Yes, I've noted that Tony and Susan and others mention their services and products in their postings. So what? If you don't like it, hit the delete key. Set up a spam filter to trash their postings. Ignore their suggestions that usually proceed mention of their products (thus willfully ignoring free advice in the process). If you hate their postings, filter them. If you don't know how to do that, you really, really shouldn't be allowed access to the Internet. Let me rain on your sanctimonious parade a little bit more: In the almost ten years I hosted the list, I was asked many times, "what do you get out of this?" I had calls from IBM wondering what financial or marketing advantage this gave me. The answer? NONE. To my colleagues on the list who run their own businesses--don't worry about it. In 9+ years of running the list, do you know how many sales/projects I got from the effort? ZERO! (It was a work of payback to the community.) My analysis was that 95% or more of the (mostly non-posting lurkers) of the list not only do not have the authority to sign a check, their opinions are not taken into account by management when purchasing decisions are made. So to the whiners about "sales pitches" on The List, want us to do a statistical analysis of your postings to see how much "content" or technical knowledge you contribute compared to what non-AD postings you receive? To the (very few) who do mention their services and products on the list, I ask a simple question: Are you getting enough (any) leads that make putting up with this abuse from the non-check-writing members worth your harassment? Just think about it. Are you more interested in free information exchange, or coercing people to post things YOUR way? -- Regards, Clif ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ W. Clifton Oliver, CCP CLIFTON OLIVER & ASSOCIATES Tel: +1 619 460 5678 Web: www.oliver.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------- u2-users mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ------- u2-users mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
