On 9/11/07, Moderator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All, > It is no secret that I vehemently disagree with making this an > unmoderated list.
I must have missed some of the conversation because I did not hear anyone suggest that the list be unmoderated, just that it be moderated like many other lists where folks do not get chided or their conversations closed down if they have somethig to do with the subject of the list. I very much recognize that something else was decided with this list when the u2-community approach was taken. I disagreed with it then, but played along, and was thinking that perhaps the time had come to close that list down and have one list like the jbase folks, for example. If the majority opinion is to keep all meta conversations (like this one) and all discussions about U2 that are more general than specific, perhaps seemingly theoretical to some (I'm seen as a practitioner by anyone in the theory world, but sometimes my questions and responses have "theory" in them) out of u2-users, so that the guidelines are not changed, then I will continue to comply. And, again, I am not just concerned with my own postings, but with the general sense of the community. To me, these guidelines "feel" excessively male, for example, perhaps more so than the U2 community of developers at large. With the brain differences that have made news in recent years, that might make sense. It might make sense to more males than females that one could cut out "community" and move it to some separate place. > So I'm going to take a poll. Everyone who is looking > forward to no moderator intervention during the next GOTO war or Single > Letter Variable war or next Monty Python Quote jamboree, You are setting up a scenario that I don't think anyone requested. Unless the Monte Python quotes include a wIntegrate or Accuterm interface or something, wink wink, I would expect a moderator to end such threads if they get too off track. > please sound > off your approval. All those who want to see personal attacks > unsanctioned, sing out. Who are these people? I think I asked the question differently and got positive responses to shutting down u2-community and permitting the u2 related topics to be in this list. > And please take a moment to vote for obscene and > inappropriate comments as well. It appears you are purposely painting a very different picture than anything that anyone else has suggested. I'm not sure why you are, however. > Those who think the mods *should* step in on those sort of things, > kindly explain exactly what rules want and don't want. Because the > 'freedom now' posts are not well thought out. I'm not sure what you think to be ill-thought out, but I am not sure you are hearing me and others, Chuck. I am not looking for freedom from moderation at all. I am looking for freedom to post and response on topics of interest to me and others, even if they do not involve the word "printer," for example. I recall asking how people classified their file types in the past (transaction, hostory, code files, ...), as an example of an interchange that would help me in my job and perhaps others in theirs, but that not everyone who is trying to write an EVAL statement to xyz might find interesting.. > Digest users, for example, can't filter out posts. I didn't think many people used digests any more, but one person told me that he does and simply does not want to filter e-mail and wants to open all posts, so he would prefer they all be relevant to him (or something like that, I'm still not quite sure). Given tools like gmail and yahoo mail, among others, this is a personal choice that people make, but not one that should interfere as much as it does in potentially shutting down threads of interest to others. That is just an opinion, of course. > People who have > quotas on their e-mail boxes really don't want important messages > bouncing because two people decide to chat on the list about the nuances > of implementing a rock-paper-scissors design strategy on various MV > platforms. Some people are stuck with low speed connections. Because I suspect that to be a minority position (I could be wrong), perhaps we could pass along only some subset of threads to a second list. For the purpose of understanding what these might be, what criteria does a u2-users posting need to meet to be one that some subset of u2-users would like as the only type of e-mails on the list? > The reason U2-Community is under used is because the vast majority of > people on this list aren't very interested in that sort of endless naval > gazing. Of course if you clamp down on a list, those whose postings would fall outside of the def are bound to float away over time. I suspect that I am not the only one who does not like to be told that I just posting something that has been deemed END OF THREAD. It is enough to make me not want to post anything. > Bear in mind, I generally don't END OF THREAD anything > immediately. I shut it down when the value vs. volume becomes reduced. > If it is running too long, but still of interest, I send it to > U2-Community. If itis still of use, why shut it down. Long threads are not inherently bad, are they? > If asking you to change the address on the send line is > enough to completely kill a topic, Ah, you are missing the nuances of "community." It feels much more like standing in a group with a lively conversation, perhaps even laughter in the air, and someone looking at you and saying "take your conversation and your laughter and go to the next room, we don't want you here." > you weren't very invested in it, were > you? > > If this sounds angry, you have read it correctly. Yes, it does. I'm sorry you are angry about it. I honestly thought that you were simply implementing the guidelines as we had them from the start of the U2UG as it did not look to me that these were your rules, but the ones you inherited. > This is now a U2UG board issue and will be discussed at the Wednesday > meeting. I suggest you put your opinions out in the open, on > U2-Community -as that is where it belongs under the CURRENT rules, > before then. I responded to the list on which I read this and did not cross-post. If it were on u2-community I would not have seen it at this point as that list has not been all that useful from my perspective. I'm not a win-lose kinda guy, Chuck, so is there a win-win on this one? I don't need you and others hopping mad or anything. I just honestly thought that u2-community was ready to be shut down and a few changes could be made on u2-users to make a slightly larger umbrella. I was pleased to see that Clif and others agreed. I don't have to force the issue, however. Have a good week. Cheers! --dawn > > - Charles Barouch, Moderator > > To subscribe or resubscribe to U2-Community please visit > http://listserver.u2ug.org/. > ------------ > u2-community mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ > -- Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. Take and give some delight today ------- u2-users mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
