The problem as I see it Tony is twofold. 1) By having to pay for something as elemental as language bindings, you are effectively limiting U2 to already established companies. Why would a start-up pay to experiment with U2 when there are better supported *free* development stacks with larger communities? It doesn't make sense. That's why U2 is limited and won't grow beyond the small community that already uses it.
2) Is it really that easily fixed without Rocket? How do create a language binding for U2 without several issues. Firstly, UniObjects is a bad interface on a security level (really, if I need to call a subroutine, the port allows them to run ECL commands as well? Is this 1980?), so building a binding on top of that is a horrible idea if you intend it to be widespread. So if not UniObjects, what? Native phantoms cannot fork so we cannot have an effective service running without an external OS dependent multiplexer in between. Yes, I can see people be lured by a DB that requires you to not only set it up, but also another service separated (and downloaded separated) just to use their language of choice when MySQL and brethren are supported out of the box. It isn't a matter of what you *can* do, it is how easily and effective you can do it compared to the other available stacks. When I develop in my free time where I don't have access to work's systems, why would I bother with U2 where I have to build not only the tool chain myself, but also the language bindings (or pay for them) when I can fire up CakePHP + MySQL where all already exists, is well documented, large support communities and it is easy to find other developers already skilled in it. Don't get me wrong though, I completely respect that you cannot always offer the toil of hours for free. It shouldn't be an issue with basic development tools though, why should we, as a community, build the toolset for a vendor to ultimately profit from? That's where Rocket's responsibility comes in. Their product, their prerogative as to whether they simply support the existing status quo or actively enable new players to enter the and expand the market space. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2011 7:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP? > From: Steve Romanow > Look at the number of language bindings for most db's. U2 has 2, and > they are ok, but only 2. MongoDB has like 10-20. That problem is easily fixed technically. Language bindings don't need to come from the DBMS vendors. And let's face it, they aren't that creative and they don't want to invest too much unless they see tangible returns in terms of license sales. So this like other projects will have to be a community undertaking anyway, as it is with every other platform out there. I've already started this project actually, and run it by some respected community members to validate the concept. As always, the problem is that projects like this, for the good of everyone, tend to fall on the few who often can afford it the least. I'm going to use "I" and "me" below, but this applies to anyone in this market who does free development as a community service. There are a lot of us here. I create things like language bindings because I think it's cool and because it will help our market. In the mean time there are people fearing for loss of their jobs because their platform of choice is too obscure and missing language bindings (for example) that are common everywhere else. Demand/motivation and supply/desire in this market must learn to meet in the middle. I know if I solicit donations so that I can pay my mortgage while providing you (collectively) with something that will increase the value of your platform, I'll be shunned for trying to sell yet another product (what a concept *sigh*). The public outcry will be deafening "but it should be FREE", implying of course that someone else should do the work for free for everyone's benefit, like it is (supposedly) in the rest of the world. With no motivation, this project that has been in the queue for about two years, will remain on the bottom of the TODO list, and may never get finished. (Personal note: And for anyone who thinks I only do things for-fee, look for my name at Codeplex, Sourceforge, github, and elsewhere. I do contribute to FOSS, and I contribute freeware to this market as well. But when my free time translates to someone else's profitability or continued employment, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for something in return. Generous does not equal stupid.) But if neither I nor anyone else does this (for free or fee), the net result will be that some years later people will still be lamenting in forums that such things don't exist and that it should all come from the DBMS vendors. Nothing will change. I've been saying that for years and here we are - nothing has changed. That fundamental mindset is really what cripples this market. That's also what doesn't change. It's not a lack of communication tools, language bindings, admin utilities, or other things people mention occasionally. If people attach value to things they say are valuable to them, this market may actually move forward a little. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno _______________________________________________ U2-Users mailing list [email protected] http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ########################################################################################### The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. 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