on Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:38 AM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Well, Ray has spoken, so I guess that makes it gospel. Top posting is
> "wrong-posting", and only newbies who don't know any better do it.

I think Charlie is write to point out that dogmatism on any matter is
usually wrong.  Ray raises some good points, and follows a set of rules for
posting that I normally adhere to.  But, I agree with Charlie that there are
times when top-posting seems the best way to communicate.

>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> The byte flow problem, is the one that directly affects Cliff and the
> digests.  Unfortunately, 99.9999% of Top-Posters neglect to trim the
> quoted message to the relevant material.  That wastes huge amounts of
> bandwidth. [snip] There really are no valid reasons to top-post, but
> there are plenty of valid reasons to inter-post and trim the quoted
> material.

Now, here's the nub of the matter IMHO.  Frankly I don't care if people top-
or bottom- or inter- post, but I find it highly annoying when posters can't
be bothered to trim what they are quoting.

Below are some examples I've seen here recently.  Note that the person being
quoted is rarely at fault here, it is usually the quoter, not the quotee.

I particularly dislike it when people quote Microsoft's entire attribution

> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [ADMIN] The aforementioned and promised NAG

along with the earlier poster's salutations:

> Folks,

and their closures and sigs:

> Thanks
> Mike Henderson
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
> Senior Analyst / Programmer, Corporate Applications
> Communications & Information Systems Branch
> New Zealand Defence Force
> DDI: +64 4 2371 828
> Fax: +64 4 2371 807
> Mob: +64 21 300 654

and even disclaimers from their corporate entity/ISP:

> The information contained in this Internet Email message is intended
> for the addressee only and may contain privileged information, but not
> necessarily the official views or opinions of the New Zealand
> Defence Force.
> If you are not the intended recipient you must not use,
> disclose, copy or
> distribute this message or the information in it.
> If you have received this message in error, please Email or telephone
> the sender immediately. --

Jerry Banker wrote:

> If it's not at the top it generally goes in the deleted
> folder. I haven't
> got time to go searching through the text for an answer.

Well, if that is the case Jerry, and I realise you'll have binned this
before reaching this point, you should understand how frustrating it is for
the rest of us.

There are options in Outlook under E-Mail Options where you can specify not
to include the original text in any reply.  PLEASE, if you aren't going to
trim the context, use that option, and simply post your reply standalone.

Alternatively, there are two good freeware tools you can use which let you
fix up the way OE and Outlook do quoting and attributions automatically -
sadly though, they'll only do it on the way out, they won't fix stuff other
people send you!

Here are the URLs:

Outlook Express: http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
Outlook 2000+: http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/



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