Depends on How/What/Where the GUI takes place - if you did GUI via, say, VB or Java, the application could be local on the workstation - transmission time could be next to nothing for the actual GUI - depends a LOT on the overall architecture employed
If you were using, say, HTML via a web server, 1st time hit could be 50+ times greater as you suggest ON YOUR FIRST VISIT --> with caching, 2nd & subsequent could be just a cache check, which would easily be on a par (or less) that character mode. If you were doing "thin client" via Citrix/TerminalServer, then you have a constant "chatter level" of 1-5Kb/sec, even if you are doing nothing! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Schalk van Zyl >Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 8:52 PM >To: U2 Users Discussion List >Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based > >Dawn and all, > >Another aspect of GUI, which we sure have to consider, is data >communication lines. >Our operation is spread over 1000 kilometres, and sending GUI screens back >and forth will certainly clog our lines. Except when you make use of local >intelligence. The volume of data sent to paint a GUI screen must certainly >be a factor of 50 more than with CUI. (?) > >Schalk > >On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:31 +0100, Brian Leach ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> To go back to Dawn's original post - >> >> Dawn, >> >> I've been writing GUI applications for UniVerse for about 15 years now. >> Some >> have worked, some have - well - been learning experiences. >> >> You shouldn't really compare GUI and character based. Why? Because then >> you >> inevitably start to think of the GUI in character based terms - the >> arrangement of controls on a form, or the addition of some buttons. >> That's >> my main beef with 'intelligent' terminals - they obscure the real >> picture. >> >> GUI is not about what you put on the screen. It's about the flow of >> information, and how that flow best suits the application in question. >> Data >> entry is part of that flow, but only part: character based is good for >> some >> data entry and for administration, but a good application is also about >> navigation, culture and the ease of finding information again. >> >> Here are two very different examples: >> >> I did a freight forwarding package for a company that previously was >> entirely paper based. They took a - let's say "flexible" - approach to >> rules, validations, pricing, descriptions etc - and wanted to keep that. >> Providing a traditional system, with a nailed down design and entry >> screens >> just wouldn't work for them. In fact I tried that first as a prototype, >> and >> it didn't. Not in their culture. >> So I designed a system that worked the same way as their forms. Every >> page >> matched the standard forms they used, except that information >> automatically >> infilled, was sent to their billing systems, collated to their work flow >> for >> follow ups and diarising etc ... But all invisibly. What they 'saw' were >> the >> forms they had used throughout. Even the validation was fairly soft, and >> consisted mainly of highlighting things that were suspect. Annoying >> popups >> were kept to an absolute minimum, text and codes expanded directly from >> typing, and generally the whole thing designed to look and feel as >> unobtrusive as possible: nothing to interrupt their work flow. I couldn't >> have done that with a character based system because it couldn't have >> represented the compexity of some of the forms (try doing an airway bill >> or >> customs declaration form and you'll see what I mean). >> >> As a more traditional example, I have a project management system that I >> both designed and use. This is based on drill down principles, allowing >> me >> to track projects, modules, scheduled and tasks. Here the advantage of a >> GUI >> is persistence and workflow: because a GUI allows me to have multiple >> windows open modelessly, I can track down from the projects or work lists >> into the individual tasks whilst keeping the lists (heirarchically >> arranged) >> still visible, so I don't have to keep closing down windows or >> reselecting: >> generally much more efficient. I can also display more, since most of the >> time I am interested in viewing information rather than changing it - >> and at >> the viewing stage I can use smaller fonts to display things that when >> amended need larger screen estate. The diary is a case in point: I can >> use >> colours and smaller fonts to show different entries in a way that a green >> screen application wouldn't accommodate. And naturally I keep a document >> path, so any documents/project plans/applications or other materials >> connected with a task can be opened directly on my desktop. >> >> I have seen good GUIs: ones that improve process and work flow and make >> life >> genuinely easier. >> I have seen bad GUIs that interrupt work flow, slow people down (bl**dy >> mice >> and message boxes). >> >> Good GUI works. >> Bad GUI is bad bad bad. >> >> But too often GUI is blamed for the lack of vision or competence of those >> implementing it. >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis >> Sent: 20 April 2004 02:03 >> To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' >> Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based >> >> Citrix and I don't get along -- too many bad memories trying to set up >> ODBC >> so that client machines ... anyway, I know that there are reasons that >> shops >> use it, just as there are reasons I hope not to have to touch the product >> again ;-) >> >> And I didn't intend for Java to be the only possible solution to fit the >> rules -- I just tried to be sure to rule out the V-word ;-) [Just a >> little >> joke there -- I actually think that Visage is likely an excellent choice >> for >> Microsoft-centric sites and I'm a Ross-fan myself, remember] >> >> Cheers! --dawn >> >> Dawn M. Wolthuis >> Tincat Group, Inc. >> www.tincat-group.com >> >> Take and give some delight today. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Ross Ferris >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:21 PM >> To: U2 Users Discussion List >> Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based >> >> Dawn, >> >> Citrix Server would break DLG (Dawn's Law of GUI) rule 4 anyway, as you >> would need to pre-install Citrix client software on most platforms. >> >> BTW Dawn, do you have a mathematic proof of DLG ? >> >> Just wondering, 'cause just like the "Great Date Debate", many may be >> happy >> to 'bend' these rules because they don't apply to the environment they >> use ? >> >> For example, Citrix has MANY other advantages, especially in larger >> organizations, when it comes to issues like securing the desktop, and >> centralized updates etc. >> >> In Wyatt's case, he can simply install SmartTerm (oops, Windows only >> product, breaks rule 1 - hmm, but with Citrix his client 'can' be a Mac >> ?!!? >> Your "proof" could be 'interesting' ?!?!) onto his Server, and it then >> requires no pre-installation. >> >> He can have a link on a web page to download the Citrix client software >> .... >> does this 'break' your 'rules', or does it fit ? >> >> Of course Citrix Server/Terminal Server has an important place in larger >> enterprises, addressing issues like security, desktop lockdown, >> patch/update >> management, software distribution etc - which transcend DLG >> >> Also with your "rule revision" below, as with the original DLG, you still >> haven't included the "J" word, which I believe is an implicit (and >> understood) requirement for DLG !?! >> >> Ross Ferris >> Stamina Software >> Visage - an Evolution in Software Development >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis >>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 5:14 AM >>> To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' >>> Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based >>> >>> Ah, I should add or modify one of the requirements -- when I indicated >>> that there needs to be no setup on the client, I should put that in the >>> "client tier" and consider citrix servers to be application clients, of >>> sorts. So, for my purposes (though not for everyone), a citrix server >>> is not an option. >>> >>> 1. Client Tier (no setup) >>> 2. Http Server Tier (could include app server, such as tomcat or EJB >>> container such as Eclipse or WebSphere) 3. Database Server Tier >>> >>> I'll clarify the requirements to add "no more tiers". >>> >>> --dawn >>> >>> Dawn M. Wolthuis >>> Tincat Group, Inc. >>> www.tincat-group.com >>> >>> Take and give some delight today. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On Behalf Of Buffington, Wyatt >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:57 PM >>> To: U2 Users Discussion List >>> Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based >>> >>> We have been using a product called SmarTerm from Esker. It allows us >>> to displays screen close to GUI that is easily configureable by the end >>> user with little to no programming. It allows for HotSpots which appear >>> as a button on the screen which the user can click on. Buttons are a >>> list of things that a user can do that are mundane or repetitive, these >>> can save wear and tear on the old fingers. It has a GUI pop up calendar >>> that can be invoked from the host and the date returned back to the >>> host. The user can change the colors on the screen to match their >>> preferences. Email addresses and http links are highlighted differently >>> and can be clickable. You can create you our macros that can be run >>> from a Button. We use triggers to change our screen colors depending on >>> which account we are in. >>> >>> If anyone is interested in a screen shot of what can be done. Email me >>> offline at [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> We are currently using Version 11.0.5 on both PCs and Citrix Servers. I >>> am also in the process of testing 12.1 Beta. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On Behalf Of Mark Johnson >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:45 PM >>> To: U2 Users Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based >>> >>> >>> Dawn: Good luck in your search for this holy grail. Lemme know if such >>> a silver bullet is found. >>> >>> I've been hunting for years. >>> >>> Mark Johnson >>> >>> ---- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dawn M. Wolthuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:17 PM >>> Subject: GUI as nice as character-based >>> >>> >>> I haven't gotten through all of the postings in the GUI thread as yet, >>> but am working on the question of how to write a GUI that is as good as >>> a "green screen" from the perspective of folks currently using a green >>> screen application. I saw hints at that, but nothing that tackled it >>> from the standpoint of being able to use any tools on the market today >>> to accomplish this (no need to retain databasic code, for example). >>> >>> What could be used to actually replace, completely, the character >>> screens? >>> >>> Requirements: >>> 0) work with U2 as multiuser databases >>> >>> 1) Be able to use any Windows, new Mac (unix) or Linux client >>> 2) Have graphically attractive & colorful screens, looking enough like >>> standard GUIs (M$, in particular) that users would understand the use >>> of icons, etc. >>> 3) Respond to keystrokes by users -- not only to the click of a "submit" >>> button >>> 4) Require no preparation of the client computers in advance of using >>> the software, likely directing user to a web page. >>> 5) "type ahead" can be done so that the user is not waiting constantly >>> for the computer to respond >>> 6) Heads down data entry folks are as happy with this as they were with >>> their green screens when they first got those and have only minor >>> complaints if converting now from a green screen, none of substance >>> >>> What are the options -- who has written or seen such a GUI? --dawn >>> >>> Dawn M. Wolthuis >>> Tincat Group, Inc. >>> www.tincat-group.com >>> >>> Take and give some delight today. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> u2-users mailing list >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> >>> -- >>> u2-users mailing list >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> -- >>> u2-users mailing list >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> >>> -- >>> u2-users mailing list >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >>> Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 >>> >> >> --- >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 >> >> -- >> u2-users mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> -- >> u2-users mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> This email was checked by MessageLabs SkyScan before entering Microgen. >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar >> malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. >> >> DISCLAIMER >> >> This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be >> privileged. >> >> If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender >> immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other >> person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. >> >> In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please >> contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Microgen Information Management Solutions >> http://www.microgen.co.uk > > > >-- >Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > >--------------------------------------------------------- >GWK BEPERK/LIMITED (REG: 1997/022252/06) >POSBUS 47 PO BOX 8730 >DOUGLAS > >Direkteure/Directors: NB Jacobs, FJ Lawrence, J v/d S Botes, >JH Coetzee, JGD Smit, JF Jacobs, AO M�ller, JW Smit, >JP Snyman, JG Stander, JH van Dyk(MD/BD), JG Jacobs, A M�ller, >Sekr/Secr: E van Niekerk. > >Hierdie e-pos is onderworpe aan 'n vrywaring beskikbaar by: >http://www.gwk.co.za/DisclaimerVrywaring.asp >This e-mail is subjected to the disclaimer that can be viewed at: >http://www.gwk.co.za/DisclaimerVrywaring.asp > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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