No, 'Thin client' by most definitions I've seen would imply 'no need to install any additional software' .... examples of 2 'thin' client implementations would be Citrix, and a browser based application.
A "fat client" requires 'lots of stuff' - exe's, jar's etc - to be shipped to the client Contrast this to Citrix (where the only thing transmitted to the client is screen update images, as the "code" actually executes on the Citrix box) or Browser (a relatively small "page" is sent) Also see maybe http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/t/thin_client.html Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Mark Johnson >Sent: Wednesday, 21 April 2004 12:18 AM >To: U2 Users Discussion List >Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based > >Isn't that what thin clients are for? To hold the app on the client end and >only convey data. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Schalk van Zyl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:51 AM >Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based > > >> Dawn and all, >> >> Another aspect of GUI, which we sure have to consider, is data >> communication lines. >> Our operation is spread over 1000 kilometres, and sending GUI screens >back >> and forth will certainly clog our lines. Except when you make use of >local >> intelligence. The volume of data sent to paint a GUI screen must >certainly >> be a factor of 50 more than with CUI. (?) >> >> Schalk >> >> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:31 +0100, Brian Leach >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > To go back to Dawn's original post - >> > >> > Dawn, >> > >> > I've been writing GUI applications for UniVerse for about 15 years now. >> > Some >> > have worked, some have - well - been learning experiences. >> > >> > You shouldn't really compare GUI and character based. Why? Because then >> > you >> > inevitably start to think of the GUI in character based terms - the >> > arrangement of controls on a form, or the addition of some buttons. >> > That's >> > my main beef with 'intelligent' terminals - they obscure the real >> > picture. >> > >> > GUI is not about what you put on the screen. It's about the flow of >> > information, and how that flow best suits the application in question. >> > Data >> > entry is part of that flow, but only part: character based is good for >> > some >> > data entry and for administration, but a good application is also about >> > navigation, culture and the ease of finding information again. >> > >> > Here are two very different examples: >> > >> > I did a freight forwarding package for a company that previously was >> > entirely paper based. They took a - let's say "flexible" - approach to >> > rules, validations, pricing, descriptions etc - and wanted to keep >that. >> > Providing a traditional system, with a nailed down design and entry >> > screens >> > just wouldn't work for them. In fact I tried that first as a prototype, >> > and >> > it didn't. Not in their culture. >> > So I designed a system that worked the same way as their forms. Every >> > page >> > matched the standard forms they used, except that information >> > automatically >> > infilled, was sent to their billing systems, collated to their work >flow >> > for >> > follow ups and diarising etc ... But all invisibly. What they 'saw' >were >> > the >> > forms they had used throughout. Even the validation was fairly soft, >and >> > consisted mainly of highlighting things that were suspect. Annoying >> > popups >> > were kept to an absolute minimum, text and codes expanded directly from >> > typing, and generally the whole thing designed to look and feel as >> > unobtrusive as possible: nothing to interrupt their work flow. I >couldn't >> > have done that with a character based system because it couldn't have >> > represented the compexity of some of the forms (try doing an airway >bill >> > or >> > customs declaration form and you'll see what I mean). >> > >> > As a more traditional example, I have a project management system that >I >> > both designed and use. This is based on drill down principles, allowing >> > me >> > to track projects, modules, scheduled and tasks. Here the advantage of >a >> > GUI >> > is persistence and workflow: because a GUI allows me to have multiple >> > windows open modelessly, I can track down from the projects or work >lists >> > into the individual tasks whilst keeping the lists (heirarchically >> > arranged) >> > still visible, so I don't have to keep closing down windows or >> > reselecting: >> > generally much more efficient. I can also display more, since most of >the >> > time I am interested in viewing information rather than changing it - >> > and at >> > the viewing stage I can use smaller fonts to display things that when >> > amended need larger screen estate. The diary is a case in point: I can >> > use >> > colours and smaller fonts to show different entries in a way that a >green >> > screen application wouldn't accommodate. And naturally I keep a >document >> > path, so any documents/project plans/applications or other materials >> > connected with a task can be opened directly on my desktop. >> > >> > I have seen good GUIs: ones that improve process and work flow and make >> > life >> > genuinely easier. >> > I have seen bad GUIs that interrupt work flow, slow people down (bl**dy >> > mice >> > and message boxes). >> > >> > Good GUI works. >> > Bad GUI is bad bad bad. >> > >> > But too often GUI is blamed for the lack of vision or competence of >those >> > implementing it. >> > >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >On >> > Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis >> > Sent: 20 April 2004 02:03 >> > To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' >> > Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based >> > >> > Citrix and I don't get along -- too many bad memories trying to set up >> > ODBC >> > so that client machines ... anyway, I know that there are reasons that >> > shops >> > use it, just as there are reasons I hope not to have to touch the >product >> > again ;-) >> > >> > And I didn't intend for Java to be the only possible solution to fit >the >> > rules -- I just tried to be sure to rule out the V-word ;-) [Just a >> > little >> > joke there -- I actually think that Visage is likely an excellent >choice >> > for >> > Microsoft-centric sites and I'm a Ross-fan myself, remember] >> > >> > Cheers! --dawn >> > >> > Dawn M. Wolthuis >> > Tincat Group, Inc. >> > www.tincat-group.com >> > >> > Take and give some delight today. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >On >> > Behalf Of Ross Ferris >> > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:21 PM >> > To: U2 Users Discussion List >> > Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based >> > >> > Dawn, >> > >> > Citrix Server would break DLG (Dawn's Law of GUI) rule 4 anyway, as you >> > would need to pre-install Citrix client software on most platforms. >> > >> > BTW Dawn, do you have a mathematic proof of DLG ? >> > >> > Just wondering, 'cause just like the "Great Date Debate", many may be >> > happy >> > to 'bend' these rules because they don't apply to the environment they >> > use ? >> > >> > For example, Citrix has MANY other advantages, especially in larger >> > organizations, when it comes to issues like securing the desktop, and >> > centralized updates etc. >> > >> > In Wyatt's case, he can simply install SmartTerm (oops, Windows only >> > product, breaks rule 1 - hmm, but with Citrix his client 'can' be a Mac >> > ?!!? >> > Your "proof" could be 'interesting' ?!?!) onto his Server, and it then >> > requires no pre-installation. >> > >> > He can have a link on a web page to download the Citrix client software >> > .... >> > does this 'break' your 'rules', or does it fit ? >> > >> > Of course Citrix Server/Terminal Server has an important place in >larger >> > enterprises, addressing issues like security, desktop lockdown, >> > patch/update >> > management, software distribution etc - which transcend DLG >> > >> > Also with your "rule revision" below, as with the original DLG, you >still >> > haven't included the "J" word, which I believe is an implicit (and >> > understood) requirement for DLG !?! >> > >> > Ross Ferris >> > Stamina Software >> > Visage - an Evolution in Software Development >> > >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis >> >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 5:14 AM >> >> To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' >> >> Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based >> >> >> >> Ah, I should add or modify one of the requirements -- when I indicated >> >> that there needs to be no setup on the client, I should put that in >the >> >> "client tier" and consider citrix servers to be application clients, >of >> >> sorts. So, for my purposes (though not for everyone), a citrix server >> >> is not an option. >> >> >> >> 1. Client Tier (no setup) >> >> 2. Http Server Tier (could include app server, such as tomcat or EJB >> >> container such as Eclipse or WebSphere) 3. Database Server Tier >> >> >> >> I'll clarify the requirements to add "no more tiers". >> >> >> >> --dawn >> >> >> >> Dawn M. Wolthuis >> >> Tincat Group, Inc. >> >> www.tincat-group.com >> >> >> >> Take and give some delight today. >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> On Behalf Of Buffington, Wyatt >> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:57 PM >> >> To: U2 Users Discussion List >> >> Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based >> >> >> >> We have been using a product called SmarTerm from Esker. It allows us >> >> to displays screen close to GUI that is easily configureable by the >end >> >> user with little to no programming. It allows for HotSpots which >appear >> >> as a button on the screen which the user can click on. Buttons are a >> >> list of things that a user can do that are mundane or repetitive, >these >> >> can save wear and tear on the old fingers. It has a GUI pop up >calendar >> >> that can be invoked from the host and the date returned back to the >> >> host. The user can change the colors on the screen to match their >> >> preferences. Email addresses and http links are highlighted >differently >> >> and can be clickable. You can create you our macros that can be run >> >> from a Button. We use triggers to change our screen colors depending >on >> >> which account we are in. >> >> >> >> If anyone is interested in a screen shot of what can be done. Email me >> >> offline at [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> We are currently using Version 11.0.5 on both PCs and Citrix Servers. >I >> >> am also in the process of testing 12.1 Beta. >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> On Behalf Of Mark Johnson >> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:45 PM >> >> To: U2 Users Discussion List >> >> Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based >> >> >> >> >> >> Dawn: Good luck in your search for this holy grail. Lemme know if such >> >> a silver bullet is found. >> >> >> >> I've been hunting for years. >> >> >> >> Mark Johnson >> >> >> >> ---- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Dawn M. Wolthuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:17 PM >> >> Subject: GUI as nice as character-based >> >> >> >> >> >> I haven't gotten through all of the postings in the GUI thread as yet, >> >> but am working on the question of how to write a GUI that is as good >as >> >> a "green screen" from the perspective of folks currently using a green >> >> screen application. I saw hints at that, but nothing that tackled it >> >> from the standpoint of being able to use any tools on the market today >> >> to accomplish this (no need to retain databasic code, for example). >> >> >> >> What could be used to actually replace, completely, the character >> >> screens? >> >> >> >> Requirements: >> >> 0) work with U2 as multiuser databases >> >> >> >> 1) Be able to use any Windows, new Mac (unix) or Linux client >> >> 2) Have graphically attractive & colorful screens, looking enough like >> >> standard GUIs (M$, in particular) that users would understand the use >> >> of icons, etc. >> >> 3) Respond to keystrokes by users -- not only to the click of a >"submit" >> >> button >> >> 4) Require no preparation of the client computers in advance of using >> >> the software, likely directing user to a web page. >> >> 5) "type ahead" can be done so that the user is not waiting constantly >> >> for the computer to respond >> >> 6) Heads down data entry folks are as happy with this as they were >with >> >> their green screens when they first got those and have only minor >> >> complaints if converting now from a green screen, none of substance >> >> >> >> What are the options -- who has written or seen such a GUI? --dawn >> >> >> >> Dawn M. Wolthuis >> >> Tincat Group, Inc. >> >> www.tincat-group.com >> >> >> >> Take and give some delight today. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> u2-users mailing list >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> >> >> -- >> >> u2-users mailing list >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> -- >> >> u2-users mailing list >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> >> >> -- >> >> u2-users mailing list >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> >> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >> >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> >> Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 >> >> >> > >> > --- >> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> > Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 >> > >> > -- >> > u2-users mailing list >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > >> > -- >> > u2-users mailing list >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >> > This email was checked by MessageLabs SkyScan before entering Microgen. >> > >> > >> > >________________________________________________________________________ >> > This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar >> > malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. >> > >> > DISCLAIMER >> > >> > This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be >> > privileged. >> > >> > If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender >> > immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other >> > person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. >> > >> > In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please >> > contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> > Microgen Information Management Solutions >> > http://www.microgen.co.uk >> >> >> >> -- >> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> GWK BEPERK/LIMITED (REG: 1997/022252/06) >> POSBUS 47 PO BOX 8730 >> DOUGLAS >> >> Direkteure/Directors: NB Jacobs, FJ Lawrence, J v/d S Botes, >> JH Coetzee, JGD Smit, JF Jacobs, AO Müller, JW Smit, >> JP Snyman, JG Stander, JH van Dyk(MD/BD), JG Jacobs, A Müller, >> Sekr/Secr: E van Niekerk. >> >> Hierdie e-pos is onderworpe aan 'n vrywaring beskikbaar by: >> http://www.gwk.co.za/DisclaimerVrywaring.asp >> This e-mail is subjected to the disclaimer that can be viewed at: >> http://www.gwk.co.za/DisclaimerVrywaring.asp >> >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >- >---- > > >> -- >> u2-users mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > >-- >u2-users mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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